Planetary Defense

[Gyrfalcon]

I recently encountered a surprisingly large fleet attacking one of my colonies (game_78 if you want to look - the combat was at Fomalhaut) How the Haidur got a fleet that size (2 Escort Carriers and 13 Scout Cruisers) when I've yet to research Docking Fields and look to have many more colonies than they do, I'm not sure. But I rushed Planetary Defenses and figured I had a fighting chance. Then I saw this:

Planetary Defense.jpg (117.08 KiB) Viewed 21698 times

So Planet Defenses now pick the weakest heavy weapon available? (I do have both Heavy Coil Gun and Heavy Missiles researched) And Heavy Lasers can't target missiles or fighters so, by the time the ships got to the edge of the range of the planet's defenses, it was mostly destroyed already by the missiles the Scouts brought.

[sven]

So Planet Defenses now pick the weakest heavy weapon available? (I do have both Heavy Coil Gun and Heavy Missiles researched) And Heavy Lasers can't target missiles or fighters so, by the time the ships got to the edge of the range of the planet's defenses, it was mostly destroyed already by the missiles the Scouts brought.

At the moment, the planetary defense designs are a property of your empire, and it's thus your responsibility to keep them up to date with top of the line weapon techs. You can edit the planetary defense designs in the ship design screen.

I think it would be helpful to have more hints in the game to point players at the need to update their defense designs, along with their ship designs. Just having a "open design" icon overlay in the production menu would probably help (replacing the current shift-click mechanic).

But, we could also have a military advisor pop up when appropriate and remind you that your planet defense designs are out of date (if, in fact, this is the case).

[Gyrfalcon]

I think it would be helpful to have more hints in the game to point players at the need to update their defense designs, along with their ship designs. Just having a "open design" icon overlay in the production menu would probably help (replacing the current shift-click mechanic).

It would also be helpful if it shows up under Refit and New Design, instead of only Edit Design. And why can't I Refit Planetary Defenses? It looks like I'll have to scrap the current defenses to build new ones.

EDIT: Also, there doesn't seem to be any way to tell what's slotted in my Planetary Defenses and the description probably shouldn't say that they'll be updated automatically

Planetary Defenses.jpg (99.78 KiB) Viewed 21688 times

EDIT2: Also, in my opinion, I'm not sure being able to control what's in my planetary defense bases is worth the micromanagement it will take to keep it up-to-date.

[sven]

It would also be helpful if it shows up under Refit and New Design, instead of only Edit Design. And why can't I Refit Planetary Defenses? It looks like I'll have to scrap the current defenses to build new ones.

The current rules are that planets are always outfitted with whatever the most recent design is. That's a little awkward -- as I think many players are going to run into the same series of confusions you just have, all of which stem from the perfectly reasonable assumption that planetary defenses should work just like ships and stations.

Maybe a better mechanic would be to have planetary defenses require refits (like stations), but, to make the refit cost very cheap.

In any case, the bigger problem, at the moment, is probably that there's no straightforward way to see what defensive loadout you planets are currently using. When we updating the planet UIs, this is certainly something we need to work in.

[Gyrfalcon]

When we updating the planet UIs, this is certainly something we need to work in.

I clearly agree with you there

[sven]

EDIT: Also, there doesn't seem to be any way to tell what's slotted in my Planetary Defenses and the description probably shouldn't say that they'll be updated automatically

Heh. Yes -- this text is out of date

EDIT2: Also, in my opinion, I'm not sure being able to control what's in my planetary defense bases is worth the micromanagement it will take to keep it up-to-date.

Yeah, that's why the current mechanic works the way it does. Changing the design effectively does a free global refit on all your defenses. Maybe, when the planetary defense setup is easier to view in game, just what's going on here will become more obvious to players.

[rattle]

I was scrapping and rebuying ground batteries all over the place!

[sven]

I was scrapping and rebuying ground batteries all over the place!

It would be good to know a bit more about your thought processes here Looking over the save you just uploaded, it appears that you figured out more of the games features on your first playthrough than many prior first-time testers, so, that suggests that the UI has gotten more intuitive But, the planet defense feature is obviously still a bit confusing.

Did you have trouble finding the "Planet Defenses 1/2" designs in the "Edit Designs" pane?

Maybe we just need some tooltips around those designs that explain that all defenses are auto-upgraded to match the latest spec...

(edit: also, the bug you found while attacking the Phidi should be fixed on 'dev', r12216.)

[rattle]

I was just looking at everything, that's how I usually play games. What I find tedious is that the ship designer closes when you are done with something.
I found the planetary defenses 1 and 2 there and by trial and error I found out that 1 is a single defense and 2 is the double defense.
It would be nice to have a list of X designs to the right for quick access, though you don't have to change them that often for a while once you have Disruptors

[Arioch]

I was just looking at everything, that's how I usually play games. What I find tedious is that the ship designer closes when you are done with something.

Yeah, that's one of the recommendations I have in my notes to talk about in today's meeting: when you exit the Ship Designer after having entered it from the game menu, it should return you to the Edit Design screen rather than dumping you all the way back to the strategic map.

[sven]

I was just looking at everything, that's how I usually play games. What I find tedious is that the ship designer closes when you are done with something.

Yeah, that's one of the recommendations I have in my notes to talk about in today's meeting: when you exit the Ship Designer after having entered it from the game menu, it should return you to the Edit Design screen rather than dumping you all the way back to the strategic map.

(i agree with this change as well -- it should be implemented on 'dev' (r12223) though there's still a little bug in which the version of the ship shown in the design list isn't updated with whatever new weapons you added... give me a moment.)

edit: should be working as intended as of r12224 (dev). let me know if there's any nuances of behavior that seem off. (in particular, atm, if you switch from "Edit Design" to "New Design", the mode you're dumped back into after completing a new design is "Edit" not "New". maybe staying in "New" mode would make more sense?)

[halftea]

Actually, I kind of like that it goes back to "Edit Design". Gives me a chance to look over what I have set up and then decide if I want to create anything else using "New Design".

[Arioch]

Actually, I kind of like that it goes back to "Edit Design". Gives me a chance to look over what I have set up and then decide if I want to create anything else using "New Design".

I agree that it should go back to "Edit Design."

By the way, in the current dev build, though clicking (check) from the Ship Designer does now return you to the Edit Design menu, clicking (X) still dumps you all the way back to the strategic map.

[sven]

Actually, I kind of like that it goes back to "Edit Design". Gives me a chance to look over what I have set up and then decide if I want to create anything else using "New Design".

I agree that it should go back to "Edit Design."

Ok. I like dropping back to "Edit" as well, so, looks like the behavior will stay

By the way, in the current dev build, though clicking (check) from the Ship Designer does now return you to the Edit Design menu, clicking (X) still dumps you all the way back to the strategic map.

opps. should be patched on 'dev' (r12240).

[Gyrfalcon]

Transports are now an editable design. They can be outfitted with either cargo modules or planetary assault forces.

This makes stealing early game colonies from the AI very, very easy.