In response to the ultimatum "We will have Xxx, admiral…" said admiral should produce "Come and take it!"

Better is the enemy of good.

The pop report panel is a separate panel from the production panel, so it's not like everything is crammed together, you get a choice between two different useful functionalities and can alternate freely between the two.

Here's my suggestion for reworking population mechanics -- and a little bit of terraforming too! Have each planet be made up, not of percentage of area for each biome, but a specific, discrete number of slots, visible at a glance, like [2 domed habitats], [3 vents], [2 ice], [6 deep ocean] or whatever. Each slot would (normally) be space for 1 million population. And further, these slots should show up, visibly, on the map when zooming in on the planet... At that point, it's a simple matter to simplify how the races interact with each biome. Simply have each race have a small list of biomes that are "Favored" (IE, 2 million of this race can exist in that slot), "Viable" (1 million can exist in that slot), and "Nonviable (0 of this race can exist in that slot). For example, Humans would have (say), "Urban", and "Forest" as favored, and "Ruined Urban", "Domed Habitat", and "Arid", as Viable. Further, you'd be able to click and drag populations to different appropriate areas to move people around within a planet, and technologies could do things like make a your population count a new biome as favored, or add extra of a biome type (like domed habitat!) to all of one particular type of planet, and so on. As it is, the existing planetary biomes, and who works best in what biome, is too opaque -- for example, on the species description screen, it doesn't say who favors what biome! And there's like four tiers of favor sometimes, which doesn't actually add much to gameplay.

Gavinfoxx wrote:As it is, the existing planetary biomes, and who works best in what biome, is too opaque -- for example, on the species description screen, it doesn't say who favors what biome! And there's like four tiers of favor sometimes, which doesn't actually add much to gameplay.

In the information pane of the planet screen, if you click on the names of the various biomes, it shows you a ranking of the habitability of the various species. It might make sense to add some biome preference information to the race info panes, but the player doesn't need to know the numerical habitability numbers, only whether one species is better in a particular biome than another. The UI will tell you when you start a population move whether that species will increase the total population or not.

Our goal was to have a system that rewarded you for diversifying your population and finding new species to improve your total population (which we think it fun), but we wanted to avoid unnecessary micromanagement of every population unit. Our system is designed so that adding a new species that is better adapted to an under-utilized biome will increase the planet's total population, but adding a less-than-optimal species will not decrease it. So there's no need to move or cull sub-optimal population units. Because I think that would be incredibly tedious.

Still playing the game for many years. Thank you

I would love to see several things in-game:
1. A population pie divided into empire races and their contribution to the overall food, money, science or labor as percentage. Gremak should be able to enslave all minor races in comparison to the normal races with Enslave tech. Enslaved sedentary races will be possible to be moved or exterminated this way.

2. If another race becomes a 2/3rd majority in the empire then the said race becomes the empire holder, thus making it possible to play as extinct empires or unplayable by default races. Imagine an Algorian empire with some additional techs for Cold planets for example.

3.Empire wide rebellions should be possible at certain stage/tech/population level. It could be achieved easily - when a rebel within the empire of a certain race exists it gives 3 negative to other members of this race, so with 6 or 7 million rebels the chance of everyone rebelling of the race should be greater. When the whole race rebels - a faction is reborn, or a new faction is born.

4. Star Harpies story is unfinished. I would expect more to the story that would eventually lead to a Science Victory. Nothing happens after destroying the Herald, or exploring the Nodes, or even sending habitats to them or discovering all Arda tech. Right now we have only Diplo and Conquest ones which are quite similar too as to reach them you are basically a huge blob anyways

5. Planet names - I treat planets as real ones and love to roleplay. I would like to see AI naming planets when they take them. At least medium and large ones.

6. I want to remind a reply to a post of mine regarding terraforming and planet construction. I am still waiting for that tech to fully develop its potential and beauty.
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Postby Arioch » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:08 pm
Terraforming is a mechanic which will change substantially in the future. Right now it's essentially just a toy for the human player.
stars-in-shadow.com

We plan to explore more of the Arda Seed story in future expansions as we get deeper into hyperspace (assuming we're able to get there).

Having the AI rename planets would be cute & fun.

I am concerned that making the rebellion mechanic more punishing would be kind of like kicking the player when he's down.

Arioch wrote:We plan to explore more of the Arda Seed story in future expansions as we get deeper into hyperspace (assuming we're able to get there).

Having the AI rename planets would be cute & fun.

I am concerned that making the rebellion mechanic more punishing would be kind of like kicking the player when he's down.

Not just having the AI rename planets, but being able to get 'real' names for your colony planets for your race as well. And I'd like splinter colonies to be named as well. That said, I've at least evolved some names I use for Phidi colonies and Human splinter colonies, in the absence of canonical names... can't say how often I've had the Human colony of Splendor on a garden world, or Desolation on a low-fertility arid, or Ymir on a glacier world.

Likewise Phidi worlds of Nuo, Onni, Surao, and Seysus.

(For that matter, I've also decided on the Thresher and Scavenger homeworlds of Ssuruush and Tattak...)

sishelper wrote:4. Star Harpies story is unfinished. I would expect more to the story that would eventually lead to a Science Victory... Right now we have only Diplo and Conquest ones which are quite similar too as to reach them you are basically a huge blob anyways

The lack of science victory is indeed feeling... unconventional for a genre. I've been in a situations when me and another 1-2 players were equally powerful, with huge fleets, and no more room to expand, either wide and tall (sans terraforming). Attack in such situation would mean a lot of hassle, not mentioning unpleasant bloodshed. And what then all those Hyperspace Clouds and Artificial AIs are for? They won't help in military or diplomatic victory. Just requires a clear UI to show how close are other players to victory (Endless Space?).

Most of the science victories in the 4X games I play seem pretty silly from an immersion point of view. "So you launched a starship to Alpha Centauri... well, congratulations, but my tanks just rolled into your capital; you work for me now."

I suppose we could add some kind of "hacking" mechanisms (I think Endless Space 2 has something like that, though I haven't got that far) that provides some tangible way to actually take control of other systems, or at least influence their voting. But while this might be a fun mechanism for the players to inflict on the AI, I kind of doubt that the players will much enjoy having the AI do it to them.

There's also the question of play balance: especially on higher difficulty levels, the AI is often ahead of the player in technology. Preventing the AI from just stomping the player through a science victory would probably be a significant concern.

If we survive past DLC2, we may be able to add some kind of espionage/intelligence system in DLC3, and some kind of culture system in DLC4. Those could either provide alternate victory conditions, or perhaps (and in my opinion, preferably) just aid in the achievement of the existing victory conditions.

Here's a suggestion for planets and terraforming and such. I'd like it, if in general, to get the most out of the best 'verdant' planet types (Coral, Garden, Paradise, etc.), that they were optimized so that three of the 'smart' races would be enough to get out of them. For example, for Coral/Ocean/Island worlds, the optimal population mix is Phidi and Orthin. Perhaps you could rename 'Swamp' terrain type to 'Mangrove' and add it as a terrain type on Coral and Island (and possibly Ocean) worlds? That would make the ideal endgame population mix for those worlds be Phidi/Orthin/Gremak.

Also, I think humans could use a boost to the capabilities of their population type. Perhaps make them favored 'Forest' terrain type?

Oh, I have another idea. The Human race should have a special hidden 'quest'. If they go to the Ephelos system, capture the super-dreadnaught, and then colonize the iceworld and place human populations on it... then there should be a special storyline thing unlocked, where the true history of that system, and it's real name, is uncovered (and the planets and such in it get renamed appropriately).

Gavinfoxx wrote:Here's a suggestion for planets and terraforming and such. I'd like it, if in general, to get the most out of the best 'verdant' planet types (Coral, Garden, Paradise, etc.), that they were optimized so that three of the 'smart' races would be enough to get out of them. For example, for Coral/Ocean/Island worlds, the optimal population mix is Phidi and Orthin. Perhaps you could rename 'Swamp' terrain type to 'Mangrove' and add it as a terrain type on Coral and Island (and possibly Ocean) worlds? That would make the ideal endgame population mix for those worlds be Phidi/Orthin/Gremak.

I'm not sure what the purpose of that would be. If you're worried about the Gremak not having worlds ideal for them, we should be adding a Swamp world type in DLC2. We'll look at whether to add Swamp biome to other planet types and stages.

I don't think I would want to use a name like "Mangrove," since that's a tree specific to Earth. Not sure that any name change is necessary.

Gavinfoxx wrote:Also, I think humans could use a boost to the capabilities of their population type. Perhaps make them favored 'Forest' terrain type?

Humans already have the highest possible rating on Forest. It's just that many of the other land species have the same rating.

Gavinfoxx wrote:Oh, I have another idea. The Human race should have a special hidden 'quest'. If they go to the Ephelos system, capture the super-dreadnaught, and then colonize the iceworld and place human populations on it... then there should be a special storyline thing unlocked, where the true history of that system, and it's real name, is uncovered (and the planets and such in it get renamed appropriately).

Not sure what you mean...

Arioch,
What do you mean survive till DLC2? I think you have the greatest 4x out there! It is insanely beautiful and detailed. Lots of potential. I think maybe the marketing stuff is lacking. People dont know about it - more youtubers should try it. More comments on Steam and Gog. Make a hype. Name planets after Youtoubers The best youtber becomes the Arda God or something. I will put comments everywhere I can just as we speak.

On a side note just bought the game again on GoG for my son. Not that he cant play my copy - but just to support you. Afterall I still play the game for more than 3 years now.

The best thing I like is the discovery of beautiful planets, taking care of them, nurture and upgrade them. See how they change when I populate them with different races. I like to see the purple spots and blue lights of the Orithin, the Green ocean lights of the Phidi and the Human lit cities.

I think the game already has the core gamplay into it - you just need to:
- finish Arda Story
- invent what to do with the excessive research once tech tree is done - either poor into science victory tech or transform it into other perks
- fix the terraforming - too easy to reach, too easy to terraform, needs to be done in stages, like your concept art. needs to be impossible to rush/buyout, needs to have the necessary terraform building in orbit taking an orbital slot ( orbital mirrors, athmosphere scrubber, etc), or else reverts back slowly to original state.
- fix planet construction - too overpowered - creates huge warm planets everywhere. There has to be special conditions to be able to do planet construction - maybe, already have a tiny planet that can become medium or an empty slot that can become a small planet. Larger planet construction only with a very rare condition form a gas giant but if you have 2 more empty slots where to put the material for new planets. Again a special constructor spaceship should be done with matter transports and other mounts on it. New planets should be with corresponding temp and athmospehere to their orbit position. Make AI use terraform and planet construction according to their race

From Art and Roleplay point of view I dream that the DLC2 will have roleplay replayability.
- Star generation. For example for me to get interesting planet systems with Large Coral or Swamp worlds I have to spawn a 100 plus star galaxy, sometimes I even play 500 star one.But that gets tedious once I am developed. Maybe there could be an option to make some stars with less planets. The option make less habitable planets is nice, but another option less planets per star could also be nice.
- Make more visualizations on the planet once we settle it. This way every planet will look different. For example Orithin purpule blobs on cold planets should be larger and bigger. Phidi should form some coral reefs and more green lights etc. But also when a planet is with lots of trade ports it changes to an ecumenopolis with rings of cities.IF more factories it changes to grey industrial structures - i.e from an Arid world to a more Tinker looking world. When it has more mines - there should be pits and cracks at some points. When farms it will look greener and more rectangular shapes on lands or underwater, etc, etc.
- I already mentioned planet naming. But also planets with artifacts or derelicts should already have a name and some story to them
- Space stations should change graphics when special stations attached to them - i.e. a Fuel station is different from Construction station, or From Science station or habitat Station. Shipyards and Fleet bases including. I normally do Shipyards with 2 habitats or A research station with one Science station module and those are not looking right , or appealing.
- When a planet is heavily bombed it should have craters visible damage for some turns, making some slots unusable for building unless you clear/repair them first
- Dont forget an Empire Wide screen. With the pies for population. I love to check the status of my Empire while it grows. I want to know how many Phidi versus Humans are in my empire and what every race contributes. According to the race structure a type of government could be formed. If you are a pure race default values are valid, But once you have a mix of many races a sort of democracy / council is necessary or with 3 major races and Oligarchy model might be better

I have a ton of other ideas.. Should stop for now though, I just got emotional. It is clear I like this game just as it is now too

Arioch wrote: Humans already have the highest possible rating on Forest. It's just that many of the other land species have the same rating.
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Not sure what you mean...

Gaiads have a higher rating in forests than humans, and seriously? An inferno world, an ice world with artifacts and low minerals, an arid world, and a gas giant. in one system, guarded by an ancient ship? There's a post about this elsewhere on the forums...

Arioch wrote:"So you launched a starship to Alpha Centauri... well, congratulations, but my tanks just rolled into your capital; you work for me now."

I think of science victory as a move to higher plane of existence, escape from mundane squabble of other not so advanced races. Alpha Centauri and GalCiv 2 are coming to mind. So your tanks rolled into empty capital, its dwellers are now superbeings far from here. And I had matches exactly like this, it's very dramatic.

Arioch wrote:I suppose we could add some kind of "hacking" mechanisms (I think Endless Space 2 has something like that, though I haven't got that far) that provides some tangible way to actually take control of other systems, or at least influence their voting.

Influence system is unrelated to science victory. It would be great to see such system in DLC3 or 4.

Arioch wrote:There's also the question of play balance: especially on higher difficulty levels, the AI is often ahead of the player in technology. Preventing the AI from just stomping the player through a science victory would probably be a significant concern.

That is intended! Every victory is a combination of research, growth, wars, alliances. So even if you aren't aiming at military victory, you (or your allies) should be prepared to stop them by force until it's too late. Or... just let them escape into their nirvana and proceed with your plans here. What if AI science victory doesn't finish the game, sparking rush to divide the escapees' heritage? Ideally, victory type shouldn't be set from the start, but rather chosen depending on mid-late game situation. Having said this, some balancing is indeed necessary - so that one can't reach science victory and have resources for mighty fleet, if only he isn't 'a huge blob' anyway.

Arioch wrote:If we survive past DLC2...

It's very worrying.

Gavinfoxx wrote:Gaiads have a higher rating in forests than humans

No, they don't. Gaiads, Humans and most of the terrestrial races have the same rating: 4.0.

sishelper wrote:I think you have the greatest 4x out there!

Thanks!

PrivateHudson wrote:I think of science victory as a move to higher plane of existence, escape from mundane squabble of other not so advanced races. Alpha Centauri and GalCiv 2 are coming to mind. So your tanks rolled into empty capital, its dwellers are now superbeings far from here. And I had matches exactly like this, it's very dramatic.

Is that really science, or evolution? Either way, I don't think that sort of ascension is within the time scope of the game.

It also seems kind of thematically counter to the whole play mechanic of the game. "Explore, expand, and build a mighty galaxy-spanning empire which you can then... abandon?" Doesn't really feel like a "victory" to me.

PrivateHudson wrote:Or... just let them escape into their nirvana and proceed with your plans here. What if AI science victory doesn't finish the game, sparking rush to divide the escapees' heritage?

Like I said... doesn't feel much like a victory if the other factions can just ignore it.