Release Plan

[zolobolo]

Is there an update release plan somewhere for the game?

I am really looking forward for these topics:
1. Rebalance Update: Make energy weapons more useful, rail-gun less so, and increase the upkeep cost of everything but especially of larger ships before the next update as it should take these changes already into account and that is:
2. AI improvement Update: Simple enough but hard to implement. Normal AI needs to be more aggressive in my opinion as it is too much of a pushover on all map sizes. Harder difficulty, I just do not find to be fun, as the AI leaps ahead in tech too fast to allow for enjoyment of the various tech levels.
3. More Races! This is the first game, where I find a dedicated update containing only races to be worth money. The art, unique ships, techs and pop attributes should make such packages a must buy on my list and would help to populate the large maps

[bjg]

Is there an update release plan somewhere for the game?

Many people would love to know that for various reasons. But not everyone want to see the same things in that update:

... Make energy weapons more useful, rail-gun less so ...

I love railguns, and want to see the "next level" of heavy kinetic weapon - weaponized blackholes, - back in the tech tree and fully implemented. In order to make (smaller) energy weapon more useful you need better engines in the tech tree (faster ships) and bigger battlefields.

... Harder difficulty, I just do not find to be fun, as the AI leaps ahead in tech too fast to allow for enjoyment of the various tech levels.

Haven't had real challenge winning on "brutal".

More Races! This is the first game, where I find a dedicated update containing only races to be worth money. The art, unique ships, techs and pop attributes should make such packages a must buy on my list and would help to populate the large maps

Indeed, but that would take a lot of Arioch's effort, not so much Sven's. And I personally haven't even played all the existing races yet.
Why not concentrate on the "half baked" stuff - diplomacy and morale, - instead. Also the tactical combat is at draft and needs a serious rework.

[zolobolo]

I love railguns, and want to see the "next level" of heavy kinetic weapon - weaponized blackholes, - back in the tech tree and fully implemented. In order to make (smaller) energy weapon more useful you need better engines in the tech tree (faster ships) and bigger battlefields.

Agreed, agreed: more tech is always welcome (new kinetic and engine types) but considering what is already here, the existing rail gun is OP. It can be equipped in the early game and is better overall star-ship killer then high-tier energy weapons.

Haven't had real challenge winning on "brutal".

Neither did anyone else according to the entries in the forums. This is the main problem: the AI is a pushover. One solution for this would be to give it a bunch of resources, but it does not seem to help it very much as this is off-balanced by the Marauders and pirates cutting it down + make it less fun for the player as the AI boots high-tier-tech early on. It does not effectively make it perform better due to its pacifist strategy, but makes playing on harder difficulties less fun to boost as more resources need to be poured into catching up. To be clear: this is only time resource form the player part as the AI does not capitalize on them and it means that all the lower tech are useless on these difficulties as the player needs to rush through them. No chance to play with them.

Indeed, but that would take a lot of Arioch's effort, not so much Sven's. And I personally haven't even played all the existing races yet.
Why not concentrate on the "half baked" stuff - diplomacy and morale, - instead. Also the tactical combat is at draft and needs a serious rework.

Played all of the races several times except Imperials and they are a lot of fun true
Morale I find to be ok at this point. It serves its purpose and is logically implemented. Diplomacy I agree could be improved, but it only requires minor changes. Nothing in the way of improving AI strategy or the re-balancing of the financing system.

[spitfire_ch]

Haven't had real challenge winning on "brutal".

Neither did anyone else according to the entries in the forums. This is the main problem: the AI is a pushover. One solution for this would be to give it a bunch of resources, but it does not seem to help it very much as this is off-balanced by the Marauders and pirates cutting it down + make it less fun for the player as the AI boots high-tier-tech early on. It does not effectively make it perform better due to its pacifist strategy, but makes playing on harder difficulties less fun to boost as more resources need to be poured into catching up. To be clear: this is only time resource form the player part as the AI does not capitalize on them and it means that all the lower tech are useless on these difficulties as the player needs to rush through them. No chance to play with them.

i observed the exact same problem when playing humans on hard: the AI players were generally very peaceful and the only way to break off a war was by declaring war on a AI player myself (which I out of some weird moral issues don't enjoy). Yet, I quickly realized that I could impossibly win this war, because the enemies tech was centuries ahead of mine. So I quickly negotiated a peace treaty and waited until my tech was close to the end of the tech tree. Now, it was possible to beat the AI, but it wasn't much fun anymore (end games in 4x games are rarely fun).

I really enjoy skirmishes early in the game, when you have to make do with low tech ships in challenging battles, but also stand a chance in these battles because the enemy is using a similar tech level. Every new scientific breakthrough really makes a difference, until the enemy catches up or hits you with some new toy from another tech branch -> you'll have to adapt etc. This kind of experience is currently not possible to achieve in Stars in Shadow.

Instead of giving AIs a research boost on harder difficulty, I would rather make diplomatic relations more difficult. Most other races should be rather hostile than friendly, so that first contact will often results in skirmishes. Peace should be fragile and alliances should be hard to achieve.

[zolobolo]

Decided to let Imperials build up for around 100 turns before attacking them when I saw they have a large enough fleet and advanced tech (normal difficult)

The AI initiated attacks against my planets and was showing promise in the beginning mostly because its fleet carriers were verry effective with their bomber wings.

Here is a problem though why its strategy does not work:
It is utilizing military transports to invade my planets + stack up on fleet power
It does not utilize boarding tactics
Here is a save in mid battle:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/y7lalufgosj3cwu/Orthin%20Second%20Tactical.rar?dl=0
The AI has enough resources to make my empire sweat, but the way it is using these ships, makes them practically useless. It does not board, thus it does not capture my more powerful ships, nor stack up its own fleet with my ships or reverse engineer my tech. It also does not send escort ships with them. A couple of fleet carriers or even heavy Cruisers would have made this fleet formidable.

Image what the AI would be capable of when it would be able to take my two world in the center of my own empire and spreading out from there.

This is why I think the AI needs to be more aggressive when building up its fleet.
No tech advantage necessary, just make them build more ships, more classes and utilize them correctly. Have it mix them better and utilize their strengthen like it already does with the bombers. Have it use the existing game mechanics - in this case: capture my ships, reverse engineer them, or turn them against me

[zolobolo]

I quickly realized that I could impossibly win this war, because the enemies tech was centuries ahead of mine. So I quickly negotiated a peace treaty and waited until my tech was close to the end of the tech tree. Now, it was possible to beat the AI, but it wasn't much fun anymore (end games in 4x games are rarely fun).

Tried this out on as well and yes, the AI does agree to sing a peace treaty for only 100 Diplomacy points even though our relationship is as bad as can be and it has a good strategic and tactical stance

It definitively needs to be more expensive to force peace down the AIs through especially if it is not beneficial to it

[bjg]

... the AI does agree to sing a peace treaty for only 100 Diplomacy points even though our relationship is as bad as can be and it has a good strategic and tactical stance

But they use to declare a war again the next turn. Is this not the case anymore?
BTW, the quote you where replying to isn't mine.

[spitfire_ch]

... the AI does agree to sing a peace treaty for only 100 Diplomacy points even though our relationship is as bad as can be and it has a good strategic and tactical stance

But they use to declare a war again the next turn. Is this not the case anymore?
BTW, the quote you where replying to isn't mine.

Did not happen in my case. Relationship stayed low (1), but they did not declare war.

[zolobolo]

But they use to declare a war again the next turn. Is this not the case anymore?
BTW, the quote you where replying to isn't mine.

Did not happen: the relationship jumped back to a mighty high level though after the truce. I was giving the AI everything it was requesting for for a long time to pump it up before the battle.
Sorry for the miss reply, was up late yesterday pushing the AIs buttons

[zolobolo]

Did not happen in my case. Relationship stayed low (1), but they did not declare war.

Maybe they need a horrid low level of opinion + the strategic advantage? I hope to see this "entry" level for declaration lowered on higher difficulties.
For normal I guess its ok if their opinion is not that negative of you.

But there is one more thing: The AI should count the fact that the player has conquered all the other civs at this point (actually all the diplomatic parameters Attila TW uses are valid for most 4X games). Have the AI hate other civs that were successful in their conquest as it is only logical that they will be next on the menu. This would naturally spice up late game and could even get the AI to finally form an alliance against the player

[SilasOfBorg]

Pandora:First Contact's AI does this and it works quite well. The AI is fine with wars and all (though it is more likely to declare war on you if you're already at war), but once you start taking cities from other players (AI or human) they *really* start to hate you, and it is not uncommon for a successful aggressor (again, AI or human, they don't care) to have several other AIs at war with them.

This works quite well as it makes you think very hard about actually going to war without taking stock of the entire planetary situation. For example, in a recent game a small but technologically advanced AI (call him Zhukov) declared war on me because, well, I was his neighbor and he was feeling frisky. I stomped his invasion force and could have taken him out, but.. nobody else was at war, and I wasn't really ready for any of the bigger fish to take advantage of me spreading myself out, even a little, and the mid-game external menace was just about due.

What ended up happening is that, due to his weakened state, three other AI declared on poor Zhukov and utterly wiped him out, but it left them spread out and a fourth AI marched in to mop up just as the mid-game menace landed. The whole time I had been building up and decided it was the perfect time to strike, and took enough territory from everyone else that *I* became the biggest fish. Everyone else declared on me and threw everything else they had at me, but I survived and kept enough turf to come back even stronger and push to a win.

There have been games where I mis-time an attack or misjudge an AI's current state, and end up getting royally stomped into the ground. If SiS ever gets to that level of AI competence it will stay on my hard drive for a long, long time.

(Oh, and all this is on "Hard", where the AI gets no advantages or disadvantages over the player. I'm not good enough or masochistic enough to play on Very Hard or Insane).

[Arioch]

Is there an update release plan somewhere for the game?

We're working on a post-release development roadmap. This will be posted soon.

AI and balancing are items that are always ongoing; they can never really be "finished," but are always at or near the top of the priority list.

We have plans for more races. These would probably have to be part of a formal expansion (as opposed to free updates), and that's something that still needs to be worked out with the publisher.

[zolobolo]

We have plans for more races. These would probably have to be part of a formal expansion (as opposed to free updates), and that's something that still needs to be worked out with the publisher.

Keeping my fingers crossed that new races will be coming out in near future.
They would be quite welcome to populate the huge maps instead of copies of existing races (their simialr ships, lgoso and leaders get confusing in large amount)
But given the differences in art, tech and each race is sporting this is one of the instances, where I find a DLC to be justified.

[Arioch]

Keeping my fingers crossed that new races will be coming out in near future.
They would be quite welcome to populate the huge maps instead of copies of existing races (their simialr ships, lgoso and leaders get confusing in large amount)
But given the differences in art, tech and each race is sporting this is one of the instances, where I find a DLC to be justified.

What I'd like to do in the near term is to create more minor factions: existing native races with proper colonies, existing splinter colonies with ships and defenses (and more interaction options), and perhaps some new minor races. These all require new art assets, but may be doable ahead of a full-blown expansion.

[zolobolo]

What I'd like to do in the near term is to create more minor factions: existing native races with proper colonies, existing splinter colonies with ships and defenses (and more interaction options), and perhaps some new minor races. These all require new art assets, but may be doable ahead of a full-blown expansion.

Sound awesome, all for it!
Just make sure the AI can handle the additional opposition