Terraforming

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AMX
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Re: Terraforming

Postby AMX » Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:41 am

Arioch wrote:But I'm also not sure how useful that information would be. The max pop calculation doesn't penalize you for having sub-optimal races in the mix.

One of my pops unexpectedly suffering from overcrowding seems like enough of a penalty to me.

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Arioch
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Re: Terraforming

Postby Arioch » Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:03 am

AMX wrote:One of my pops unexpectedly suffering from overcrowding seems like enough of a penalty to me.

I think that's unlikely to happen unexpectedly. If you transform Desert into an Island world and the native Spicemongers don't like it, that probably shouldn't come as a surprise.

gaerzi
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Re: Terraforming

Postby gaerzi » Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:05 pm

Just a little mention if some of the existing population would end up in an overpopulated situation. No need to list which populations or how many, just that it would cause problems.

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Mithramuse
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Re: Terraforming

Postby Mithramuse » Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:20 am

Arioch wrote:That said, Sven and I talked about the possibility of a special Ocean world transformation for the Gardeners that's analogous to the Island-Coral World custom transformation, and I'm starting to think that makes sense. But we have to be careful about making these transformations too good, or they just become unbalancing and ultimately boring.


Generate low density matter on top of the Ocean, to allow large floating islands? It's Waterworld! :D

--Mithramuse

DDPD
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Re: Terraforming

Postby DDPD » Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:06 am

Any idea when we might be able to start testing the new stuff?

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Arioch
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Re: Terraforming

Postby Arioch » Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:22 pm

DDPD wrote:Any idea when we might be able to start testing the new stuff?

Nope.

andy
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Re: Terraforming

Postby andy » Tue Feb 04, 2020 7:05 pm

In my experience, investing in military is (1) easier, (2) less risky/more deterrent and (3) more likely to win the game faster through conquest than by investing in terraforming.

Maybe in a protracted game with balanced opponents, I'd make it to the end of the tech tree and find usefulness in terraforming but that had never happened. If I don't have enough military, AIs attack me and I lose. If I have equal or more military, than I can out-maneuver the AIs and win.

Maybe if the terraforming option came a bit sooner in the game (or the AIs were less aggressive in a game where I was behind), I'd have to consider the cost-benefit of terraforming more often.

DanTheTerrible
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Re: Terraforming

Postby DanTheTerrible » Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:26 pm

andy wrote:In my experience, investing in military is (1) easier, (2) less risky/more deterrent and (3) more likely to win the game faster through conquest than by investing in terraforming.

Maybe in a protracted game with balanced opponents, I'd make it to the end of the tech tree and find usefulness in terraforming but that had never happened. If I don't have enough military, AIs attack me and I lose. If I have equal or more military, than I can out-maneuver the AIs and win.

Maybe if the terraforming option came a bit sooner in the game (or the AIs were less aggressive in a game where I was behind), I'd have to consider the cost-benefit of terraforming more often.


I made a comment above on much the same lines. Arioch's reply indicates much of the point is to make the easiest terraforming technologies available much earlier in the tech tree. I bet that while you may never have found terraforming useful, you have researched Bionomics in several games, which gives you a generic +1 bonus to population on all worlds. The intent seems to be to replace that generic bonus with more realistic terraforming options available at least as early as bionomics, and probably earlier than that.

The more I think about it and follow this thread, the more I regret my previous negative comment. I'm starting to think this going to be pretty cool. While there are other things I'd kind of like to see the Devs focus on, there is much to be said for encouraging Devs to develop bits they find fun to work on, rather than completely dedicate themselves to making fans happy at the price of boredom and burnout.

andy
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Re: Terraforming

Postby andy » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:12 pm

Yeah, I read about the planned overhaul. I'm looking forward to it. And, yes, bionomics is early enough and cheap enough to merit getting in most of my games. I'd say it's positioned well.


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