Short naive questions

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onomastikon
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:05 pm

Re: Short naive questions

Postby onomastikon » Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:43 am

OK thanks!
Keeping this short and about easy newbie questions :
- is there a point to morale (above 0)? I mean, are there some production bonuses or other things I am missing for morale above say 10 or whatever? (I realize there are chances of dissention below 0) - seems like having very high morale would be nice for extra votes in the council....

zolobolo
Posts: 922
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:49 pm

Re: Short naive questions

Postby zolobolo » Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:23 pm

As far as I can tell, there is no other benefit to having moral above 0 other then having a buffer for the eventual (and frankly inevitable) misdeeds of the ruler ;)

These are:
1. Enslaving pops
2. Forced labor for slaves
3. Using slaves for experiments
4. "Letting" the colonists die from starvation - this mechanic is especially important as the higher the buffer, the longer your pops can hold out during enemy blockade while still running short on food
5. Bombing civilians - a much too effective way of crippling enemy empires: this negative morale effect is more or less the only downside currectly to this "strategy"
6. Conquering pops (if you feel especially charitive and do not bomb them all ot kingdom--con to resetle a sterile planet)

Due to the above, it pays to have as high as possible morale before going into a major conflict where there is going to be a lot of blockading, bombing and labor going on :)

Now, there is also a diplomacy indicator for race opinion: this might be calculated from the opinions of all pops of that race around the map but there does not seem to be a way to determine how this KPIs is actually calcualted or how it affects diplomacy

onomastikon
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:05 pm

Re: Short naive questions

Postby onomastikon » Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:17 pm

I see, thanks. I found that usually just a market or so solves all of those problems (I never use slaves however). Would love to see more interesting mechanics, such as asymptotical bonuses or penalties to production and effects towards voting in the council. It seems too easy to me to have morale of 0 or higher.
Also, cannot really test your settings since more than 100 stars is really just slowing down my system. Also no fun with this UI to try to find particular objects (population units, ships) that you want, and then to move them...
Last questions!
- So I can build outpost transports, but apparently I cannot deploy them to planets which I already control -- what am I missing? Of course I only want to do this for my modified outposts, ones in which I remove the fuel depot (useless of course with planets I already control) and add a warp lane inhibitor. So these Inhibitor transporters I *can* deploy on inhabitable rocks, and I guess they work, but I cannot deploy them to my own planets -- is there a workaround? OR am I misunderstanding and an Inhibitor transport will work in a system even if not deployed?
- Star Gates cost basically nothing? Tuppence? Shouldn't they be incredibly metal and work intensive, considering there is no drawback to building them (they cost no orbit slot)? Or at least cost an orbit slot?
thanks much!

Chasm
Posts: 557
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:14 pm

Re: Short naive questions

Postby Chasm » Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:17 pm

An outpost is a space station deployable to worlds you do not control. It does not add an orbital slot, so either deploy it to the uninhabited world and colonize afterward, or just build the orbital you want after world is colonized.

zolobolo
Posts: 922
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:49 pm

Re: Short naive questions

Postby zolobolo » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:12 pm

My understanding is that Stargates are meant to work both ways: once an enemy occupies the planet and captures the Stargate, it can be used by their network - the problem here is that the AI does not yet build their own stargate network (not even when playing Haduir)

But frankly, if the game does not make it untill end-game, the only way the player would come across Stargates is when playing the Haduir: in the save this is exactly the case. I have built them all across my systems and it helps a lot with positioning but was still loosing badly against Tinker+Phidi alliance. Its not a game changer like super dreds or mobile planetoids, jsut speeds up ships in ceartant cases and costs some money and metal in return

Son all-in-all I think it is fine how much they cost- I would increase the upkeep cost of them for sure, but I generally miss higher infrastrucutre costs (starbases and fortresses are also virtually free to have and often have a more profound inpact on the game as they can stop a flet in their tracks

If you have issues with the UI, be sure to check out hte advanced options menu: assigning new transport ships to trade fleet automatically, or blending in range and movement lines can help a lot depending on the type of map you are playing and how far you are in

But what was that abouth inhibitors? Did you get a game untill end-game withouth winning? Can you pls send a screenshot of that?
I am always interested in finding ways to prolong the meaningfull game time

If you find 120 stars to be too much I can understand that - AI takes quite some time since the updates - but 85 systems should still be fine right? Luck of course is a big factor: the save/and current game turned out ot be a winner for two reasons:
1. Tinkers and Phidi both became as powerfull as the player till mid-game on the own and were unseparatable allies from thereon
2. There are some strips of uninhabitable systems lining the territories of the three sides, and worked as a temporary barrier for most of the game enabling all sides to buff up their military and defenses before late-game has kicked in

onomastikon
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:05 pm

Re: Short naive questions

Postby onomastikon » Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:15 pm

Thanks!
I dont think the AI can capture Stargates; if you have any missiles after you have researched auto-retargeting then those stargates die quickly.
Those UI options I had found, but on large maps it's still too much of a hassle to find out which planets have which populations that need to move where, etc., I think small maps fit this UI better.
And no, there is no real end-game going on, the remaining AIs offer no threat or challenge I just wanted to know what some of the end-game techs do so I refuse to accept the council vote and just let the AI scratch around a bit while I see what "planet construction" actually means :lol:
Does anyone else have a problem in tactical battles once there are more than say 30 ships on the screen at once? I find that the individual ships will frequently not react to my mouseclicks, that I cannot select certain ships or if I manage to do so, I cannot get them to move, or I can only select all of the ships of the same type (which I cannot move anyhow) -- or is that my computer?
thanks much

zolobolo
Posts: 922
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:49 pm

Re: Short naive questions

Postby zolobolo » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:25 pm

Haven't had such issues even with large amount of ships up to around 40 per side

Check the save I have uploaded - it seems to go all the way into the end-game: would have lost agaisnt the AI (first time in late-game) if haven't resorted to scorched earth exploit

It might be that one of the ships you select cannot move... that would prevent moving all the selected ships at once.
A ship might be incapacitated, due to damage, being captured, out of movement points or being boxed in by other ships

I agree that the UI would need a quick overview of all the pops and their amount in hte production screen. I would make the info triggerable when displayed in the system view though as some might find the view cluttered otherwise

zolobolo
Posts: 922
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:49 pm

Re: Short naive questions

Postby zolobolo » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:17 pm

Finally I got to the endgame of the save - took me long enough as I needed to move the defneding fleets back to the starbases and in range of planetary defenses in most plantery defense missions (of which tehre was a record amount there :))

At preciecly Turn 300 the Tinker + Phidi alliance has lost the war and the game, so no endgame :)
Ther reason I am still smyling though is that the only way I could survive the late-game was to resorting to the probably most commonly used exploit of SiS: scorched planet tactic. By eliminating the whole population of an enemy planet and then simply moving on to the next least defended target, the defendinf fleets are forced to play catchup, whilee loosing whole planets and not having anything to take back (no building or pops remain) - the player can also ignore the need to produce ground units, and having to bother with moral penalties of conquered planets

If I hadn't resorted to this exploit, I would have definitively lost the game despite having a well built-up empire + ally and this is very good - best game so far. I just couldn't help myself of trying the tactic in this situation again instead of going down with dignity :)

Thus some random variables aside, the game can get a hell-of a challange even on Normal difficulty.
Once he diplomacy update is out there are only going to be two mayor exploits left in the game as far as I can tell: the above scorched planet tactic and hiring merc ships - the combination of these two can negate even the hardest difficulty withouth effort so should be avoided so that the fun mechanics are not spoiled by them

There was mention of a planetary degradation penalty after bombing: this would till some extent negate the exploit, but only if there are several layers of habitable planets between the parties, otherwise the AI will be cripled just the same (as would the player but hte AI does not resort to this tactic)

Regarding mercs: those need an AI update which I hope will also come in the near future

All-in-all: fantastic playthrough (be sure to set raider activity to LOW) even though it just missed the endgame: next time we'll make it ;)

onomastikon
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:05 pm

Re: Short naive questions

Postby onomastikon » Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:06 pm

Sounds great!
You mentioned here:

7. Game Speed setting: "Epic" only affects Research rate by changing the multiplier to 1.5 and does not yet affect production. You can check the setting and change it if you like in file: new_galaxy.lua

that game speed settings change only research, when I start a new game it says that changing that setting will change research and production. How do I check that file you mention to see what is what? I am not very good at technological things :oops:
thank you!

zolobolo
Posts: 922
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:49 pm

Re: Short naive questions

Postby zolobolo » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:45 pm

onomastikon wrote:Sounds great!
You mentioned here:

7. Game Speed setting: "Epic" only affects Research rate by changing the multiplier to 1.5 and does not yet affect production. You can check the setting and change it if you like in file: new_galaxy.lua

that game speed settings change only research, when I start a new game it says that changing that setting will change research and production. How do I check that file you mention to see what is what? I am not very good at technological things :oops:
thank you!

Don't think the hint is correct for normal difficulty anymore (previously it was the case)

The file is located here:
Install DIR\Stars in Shadow\Lua state\Setup\new_galaxy.lua

This is the relevant code:
local game_speed_settings = {
normal = {
tech_cost_mult=1,
production_cost_mult=1,
influence_cost_mult=1,
},
epic = {
tech_cost_mult=1.5,
production_cost_mult=1,
influence_cost_mult=1,
},
marathon = {
tech_cost_mult=2,
production_cost_mult=1.5,
influence_cost_mult=1.5,
},
}


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