Can We Talk About Diplomacy?

A forum for chatting about in-development game features.

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nweismuller
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Re: Can We Talk About Diplomacy?

Postby nweismuller » Tue May 08, 2018 7:39 am

That's still exciting news for me. I've been leaving Stars in Shadow aside recently, anticipating the new diplomacy changes. I am very much looking forward to a more sophisticated diplomatic game.

nathanebht
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Re: Can We Talk About Diplomacy?

Postby nathanebht » Tue May 08, 2018 10:58 pm

Star Ruler 2 had actual cards you used in your diplomacy. Was a really great feature of that 4x game. For example, you could play a card to take an opponents planet. Its been a while, believe there were point costs involved.

zolobolo
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Re: Can We Talk About Diplomacy?

Postby zolobolo » Thu May 10, 2018 7:32 am

Are you planning to have actual cards appear during the event notification?
I mean art depicting the race specific activity and fluff description beneath it... that would be so thematic and awesome :)

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Arioch
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Re: Can We Talk About Diplomacy?

Postby Arioch » Thu May 10, 2018 8:04 pm

zolobolo wrote:Are you planning to have actual cards appear during the event notification?
I mean art depicting the race specific activity and fluff description beneath it... that would be so thematic and awesome :)

Keep in mind that most of these "events" are just triggers for the AI to do or say something; they are "cards" in the logical sense, but the whole point is to create immersion rather than break it.

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siyoa
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Re: Can We Talk About Diplomacy?

Postby siyoa » Thu May 10, 2018 8:24 pm

Arioch wrote:Keep in mind that most of these "events" are just triggers for the AI to do or say something; they are "cards" in the logical sense, but the whole point is to create immersion rather than break it.


are you guys planning to do Diplomacy DLC ? it is a lot of work for simple patch, you need some reward and I would like to support you some more :)
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Arioch
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Re: Can We Talk About Diplomacy?

Postby Arioch » Thu May 10, 2018 8:31 pm

siyoa wrote:
Arioch wrote:Keep in mind that most of these "events" are just triggers for the AI to do or say something; they are "cards" in the logical sense, but the whole point is to create immersion rather than break it.


are you guys planning to do Diplomacy DLC ? it is a lot of work for simple patch, you need some reward and I would like to support you some more :)

It would be a bit dodgy, I think, to charge as DLC for something that was intended to be a part of the base game. We have enough money to support our development efforts for the present. You can support us by helping us test the changes, and by buying our next DLC. :D

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siyoa
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Re: Can We Talk About Diplomacy?

Postby siyoa » Thu May 10, 2018 8:42 pm

Arioch wrote:It would be a bit dodgy, I think, to charge as DLC for something that was intended to be a part of the base game.


that is true, well I patiently wait for next DLC then ;)
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DDPD
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Re: Can We Talk About Diplomacy?

Postby DDPD » Thu May 10, 2018 11:52 pm

Yes, next DLC is a Day One purchase for me.

zolobolo
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Re: Can We Talk About Diplomacy?

Postby zolobolo » Fri May 11, 2018 11:21 am

Agreed

One method some devleopers are doing which I find neat is to utilize the new update content vai the DLC content meaning for example:
- Advanced diplomacy behaviour and options made available via update for everyone
- New faction that is geared heavily towards diploamcy and making full use of the mechanic

Now it could be argued we already have such race the phidi, but I would consider them a trade focused faction.
Diplomacy focus would not necesseraly mean advantagfes in this field though: then new race could be one that has severe penalties on this field but have superior planetary building/ground troops/some weapon type etc to balance it out

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Arioch
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Re: Can We Talk About Diplomacy?

Postby Arioch » Fri May 11, 2018 4:17 pm

Each DLC does include new features, but the diplomacy/AI update is something we're doing on its own. Kind of hard to tie AI improvements to a faction. :D

zolobolo
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Re: Can We Talk About Diplomacy?

Postby zolobolo » Fri May 11, 2018 5:32 pm

I am not suggesting to tie AI updates to DLC on the contrary:
- New "fetaures" like treaty mechanics are part of a free update (like planned)
- New content does not contain new features but instead concentrates on content utilzing these features. This could be interpreted by AI but I do not mean the mechanical utilization but instead the balancing of the faction: like giving bonuses to ground combat troop atack values as well as signifficant penalites for diplomacy relationships

One reason I would not suggest tying fetaures to DLC is that it often seams ot lead to prolification of game mechanics (Civ and galciv comes to my mind)
This is natural, as in order to make a new mechanic optional, it kinda needs to be segregated from all the core mechanics which os objectively a bad thing as it limits player strategies due to the absence of synergy between the various mechanics

Long story short my suggestion is:
1. New features into updates
2. New content not directly related how the game plays (such as events, art, races) into DLC

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Arioch
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Re: Can We Talk About Diplomacy?

Postby Arioch » Fri May 11, 2018 6:44 pm

We already have a faction which is tooled towards diplomacy (the Phidi), so adding another one would be redundant.

Our model for the DLC's is that they introduce some new factions and related new features. The new features are generally worked into the base game, and the new factions are available as AI opponents, whether or not you have the DLC. We already have a pretty good idea of what new features we want to add and how these will tie into the new factions.

For example, the next planned DLC features a new playable faction which ties into updated terraforming mechanics.

There is also a list of features which we planned to have in the base game which we will work in between DLC's as we can.

nathanebht
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Re: Can We Talk About Diplomacy?

Postby nathanebht » Sun May 13, 2018 6:15 am

Love that your still improving the base game and coming out with new DLCs. Hope these give you noticeable sales boosts.

zolobolo
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Re: Can We Talk About Diplomacy?

Postby zolobolo » Sun May 13, 2018 10:19 am

Is influence as a resource going to be balanced with the update?

Generally, it would probably be sufficient to have the AI utilize Marauder and merc purchases AND increase influence costs across the board OR have alliances have an influence maintenance fee

But if you would now like to teach the AI how to by ships and slaves and also have difficulty managing the market place for multiple possible buyers I would just consider cutting it from the game or make everything there cost 5X as much otherwise it will remain to provide a cheap win function for players who stumble upon it

Another issue that would for sure pop up in case the AI would in fact by Marauder and merc ships is redundancy: it is to be expected that Gremak ship styles would be running around in almost all corners of the galaxy (AI Gremak empire + Marauders + Marauders hired + Marauder Mercenaries hired). In order to elevate this redundancy, please consider applying the faction specific color scheme to all hired merc ships like seen on the galaxy map. The merc icon can still remain on the top right corner to indicate their origin (and high cost) but it would surely prolong the acceptance of the abundant presence of these ship styles

Also: since the hired merc ships do not care who they attack (contrary to their description), the paint-job of their parent organisation does not convey any useful information

DDPD
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Re: Can We Talk About Diplomacy?

Postby DDPD » Wed May 16, 2018 11:11 am

Oh that next DLC sounds amazing! I hope that’s coming soon! Nice work, Jim and Sven!!


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