Suggest - Features and Improvements

A forum for chatting about in-development game features.

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Centurion XXI
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Re: Suggest - Features and Improvements

Postby Centurion XXI » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:15 pm

Arioch wrote:The problem there is: if the Tinkers have to use slots for extra buildings just to operate normally, that's actually a penalty. The current Machine Altar also functions as a factory, so this is a bonus rather than a penalty. To justify having a completely unique building, it would have to offer some kind of specific advantage.


Я понимаю... Мне кажется, что наличие машинного алтаря (или антенн в колониях) могло бы дать бонус к производству на всех обычных фабриках, частично автоматизировав все их производственные процессы. Также это решило бы и проблему невозможности получить достижение "построй шесть заводов" для жестянщиков.

I understand ... But it seems to me that a presence of the machine altar (or the aerials in the colonies) could give a bonus to production to all conventional factories, partially automating all their production processes. It would also solve the problem of inability to get the achievement "build six factories" for the Tinkers.

zolobolo
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Re: Suggest - Features and Improvements

Postby zolobolo » Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:24 pm

Centurion XXI wrote:presence of the machine altar (or the aerials in the colonies) could give a bonus to production to all conventional factories, partially automating all their production processes. It would also solve the problem of inability to get the achievement "build six factories" for the Tinkers.

This might also be used to replace the current conversion of factories to MA and back depending on which race is played: If MA is a type of building by its own right it can always remain the same no matter who controls it

But: it raises the question of what happens to upgrade MA? Would they donwgrade for other players sicne they of coruse could not research more advanced versions of it?

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Centurion XXI
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Re: Suggest - Features and Improvements

Postby Centurion XXI » Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:20 pm

Arioch wrote:To justify having a completely unique building, it would have to offer some kind of specific advantage.


Также, возможно, алтарь / антенны могли бы дать производственный бонус шахтам, что смягчило бы проблему нехватки металла в самом начале игры для жестянщиков и дало бы им небольшое преимущество.

Also, potentially, the altar / the aerials could give a output bonus to the mines, which would mitigate the metal shortage problem early in the game for the Tinkers and give them a slight edge.

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Centurion XXI
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Re: Suggest - Features and Improvements

Postby Centurion XXI » Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:25 pm

zolobolo wrote:This might also be used to replace the current conversion of factories to MA and back depending on which race is played: If MA is a type of building by its own right it can always remain the same no matter who controls it

But: it raises the question of what happens to upgrade MA? Would they donwgrade for other players sicne they of coruse could not research more advanced versions of it?


Спасибо, Zolobolo, мне кажется, что это хорошая идея: жестянщики могли бы иметь специальную технологию для алтарей, по аналогии с тем, как имперцы имеют технологию звёздных врат.

Thanks, Zolobolo, I think that this is a good idea: the Tinkers might have special technology for altars, similarly to how the Haduirs have stargate technology.

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Centurion XXI
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Re: Suggest - Features and Improvements

Postby Centurion XXI » Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:10 pm

zolobolo wrote:
Centurion XXI wrote:This might also be used to replace the current conversion of factories to MA and back depending on which race is played...


То есть... жестянщики строят заводы, как и все, могут получить соответствующее достижение.., а один из заводов просто превращают в алтарь, который и подключается к межпланетной сети, иными словами, соединяется с божественной сущностью.

That is ... the Tinkers build factories, like everyones, so can get the corresponding achievement.., they are simply upgraded one of these factories into the machine altar, through which is connected to a interplanetary network (aka Dzibix), or in other words, "all unites with the divine essence".
Last edited by Centurion XXI on Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

gaerzi
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Re: Suggest - Features and Improvements

Postby gaerzi » Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:25 pm

Arioch wrote:I don't think the average player would have any idea, intuitively, of the difference between "upgrading" a ship and "refitting" one. One presumably doesn't refit a ship unless the refit is an upgrade.


If that's the issue, call it "auto-refit" or something while the older one is renamed "manual refit".

Arioch wrote:Piling hacks on top of hacks is not a good way to get a usable and intuitive UI.

Why would it be a hack? There would be no need for digging into the blueprint screen; just get a planet to start the auto-refit task and it automatically upgrades the ships in the system one after the other, without needing for the player to micromanage the order in which they are refit.

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Re: Suggest - Features and Improvements

Postby AMX » Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:29 pm

gaerzi wrote:
Arioch wrote:I don't think the average player would have any idea, intuitively, of the difference between "upgrading" a ship and "refitting" one. One presumably doesn't refit a ship unless the refit is an upgrade.


If that's the issue, call it "auto-refit" or something while the older one is renamed "manual refit".

Arioch wrote:Piling hacks on top of hacks is not a good way to get a usable and intuitive UI.

Why would it be a hack? There would be no need for digging into the blueprint screen; just get a planet to start the auto-refit task and it automatically upgrades the ships in the system one after the other, without needing for the player to micromanage the order in which they are refit.

If I have multiple designs for one hull, how would this auto-refit know which to choose?

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Re: Suggest - Features and Improvements

Postby gaerzi » Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:04 am

AMX wrote:If I have multiple designs for one hull, how would this auto-refit know which to choose?

The one with the same name.

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PrivateHudson
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Re: Suggest - Features and Improvements

Postby PrivateHudson » Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:50 am

Trying to rekindle old argument about science victory... I still think the game needs some way to break late-game stalemate without massive bloodshed or patient outgrowing of election competitors. If you oppose transcendence victory as out-of-timescale, what about simpler, meaner science victory? You kill Herald -> you research Big Arda Seed Secret (Stargates and Hyperspace Clouds as prerequisites) -> you build Big (no, Huge) Warp Lane Network Contact-Breaker -> you blackmail all other factions threatening to push them into pre-FTL stone age (mr Herbert, rest in peace). Only for true tyrants at heart! :twisted: (Presumably, this is how things turned at previous iteration of a struggle for galactic domination, right before the start of SiS).

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Arioch
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Re: Suggest - Features and Improvements

Postby Arioch » Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:36 am

Pretty much any plausible scenario that could be called a "victory" means either you are defeating or annexing non-allied factions, or getting them to elect you chancellor; and is therefore essentially a conquest or diplomacy victory. Regardless of whether you accomplish this through force, diplomacy, mind control, cultural assimilation, propaganda, threats, or whatever. We can add late game projects that help you win, but I don't see the need for separate victory types.

orvarth
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Re: Suggest - Features and Improvements

Postby orvarth » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:31 am

human carrier : base hull cost 6 instead of 4 , perhaps make it unique by adding a "built-in" spacemarines suttle , or a torpedo slot .

move the armor piercing mod from laser to ion/neutron , so ion for bypass armor and laser (turbo) for rapid fire .

zolobolo
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Re: Suggest - Features and Improvements

Postby zolobolo » Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:16 am

Like the idea of moving AP mod from laser to ion to make ion tech viable

Was previously always thinkig that Ion cannons need either EMP or ENV mod to give them support or anti-shield role or a new shield bypass mod (or a mod that gives them more damage to shields) but moving an existing mod over from laser to this tech only would be far simpler I guess.

Would also make some sense to not have AP for laser as armor would be definitively be good against energy beams that need to evaporate or melt the armor in order to get past it thouhg same would go for ion as well

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Re: Suggest - Features and Improvements

Postby orvarth » Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:54 am

the idea is to make ap work like the shield piercing , ion pierce only 50% of armor (damage to systems through the armor) and neutron bypass 100%.

disruptor could have a mod that make more damage to armor .

massdriver/forcelance : bypass shield 50/70% and half damage to armor
laser: rapid fire mod
ion/neutron : pierce armor 20/50% (the 50/100% is too much i think)
disruptor: 30% bonus against armor

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Arioch
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Re: Suggest - Features and Improvements

Postby Arioch » Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:45 am

Hopefully we'll get a chance to address some of the weapon balance questions in the next major release. The most glaring problem right now (in my opinion) is that weapon mods stop with lasers. The main thing I think we need to add is more mods throughout the tree.

Ion cannons are charged particles, and shields are electromagnetic fields, so ion beams should NOT be shield piercing; rather, quite the opposite. Ideally, they should be a separate damage type, that is weak against shields but does extra damage to interior systems on penetration.

zolobolo
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Re: Suggest - Features and Improvements

Postby zolobolo » Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:05 pm

Arioch wrote:Ion cannons are charged particles, and shields are electromagnetic fields, so ion beams should NOT be shield piercing; rather, quite the opposite. Ideally, they should be a separate damage type, that is weak against shields but does extra damage to interior systems on penetration.


So the existing EMP mod would be suitable for it? Ion already cannot pierce shields and has minimal damage to it that cnanot outpace regen so that is in line with the above already


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