Report - Current Bugs and Issues

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Arioch
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Re: Report - Current Bugs and Issues

Postby Arioch » Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:24 pm

zolobolo wrote:
Arioch wrote:Assault shuttles are not yet properly implemented. Right now they're essentially no different from a cargo hold.

When implemented, they will eliminate the attacking penalty for ground units both in ship-to-ground and ship-to-ship combat.


Makes sense. Can you please make it obviously that attacked receives such Penalty? Haven't noticed it so far during Invasion and assumed that an attacking Tank is of same value as a defending one

That's because the penalty isn't in game yet. :D

zolobolo wrote:Sorry to hear that Shuttles will not Pop up in tactical combat. The two art already available for it look nice but at least we get to seem them in the weapon layout Screens :)

They might show up in boarding actions; the range of assault shuttles might be greater than zero.

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Re: Report - Current Bugs and Issues

Postby zolobolo » Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:29 pm

sven wrote:
zolobolo wrote:Gremak raiding assault calculation seems to be off

Even if a colony has 8,5 units of pop, and no defenders, two raider units cannot capture any slaves even though they do not suffer any casualties during their raid
Estimated casualty is "none" as well as estimated number of captured slaves
Chance to conquer is of course 100%


Would you upload the save where you're seeing this behavior? (Under Options->Upload games logs). Many thanks.


Sure would, but the upload has sadly failed :(
Here is an image, hope this helps: https://www.dropbox.com/s/sm3tw2le4adhvsm/Raid.gif?dl=0

I have been testing this around a bit, and managed to swoop up a unit of slave from their home planet, the calculation never seem to prognoses any results though and had no luck with other colonies so far (invaded undefended colonies around 10 times, only one was successful)

Might be that the civilians fight back? They took out the Marauder after this picture... But they do not have any combat value...

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Arioch
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Re: Report - Current Bugs and Issues

Postby Arioch » Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:37 pm

Something weird is going on there -- the Orthin should be able to defend as militia. It looks like the planet may be in revolt. I think civilians can defend themselves against slavers even if they wouldn't normally fight for their government.

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Re: Report - Current Bugs and Issues

Postby zolobolo » Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:40 pm

Here is a save which might be useful: https://www.dropbox.com/s/f6s3zzrannpj4hq/Slavers%20Demise.rar?dl=0

You have 3 units of Marauders facing 10 units of "defenseless" colonists on planet Gaia in system: Tyl but will loose against them

zolobolo
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Re: Report - Current Bugs and Issues

Postby zolobolo » Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:44 pm

Arioch wrote:Something weird is going on there -- the Orthin should be able to defend as militia. It looks like the planet may be in revolt. I think civilians can defend themselves against slavers even if they wouldn't normally fight for their government.


Ok, that would make sense, but wouldn't they then show up as militia?

Tried another planet which belongs to an empire and same there. Bombed the defenses into oblivion and now 1 unit of Marauders is facing off 800k civilians. The result: No losses, no captured slaves

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Re: Report - Current Bugs and Issues

Postby zolobolo » Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:50 pm

Hope the slaves get a boost in the next update - would really enjoy the mechanic and like to play around with it but they are currently pulling down the economy hard (no food, no money). This would be ok, if they would pump out some more industry in exchange :)

What do you say to nullifying their growth rate (or at least slowing it down strongly) as well?

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Arioch
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Re: Report - Current Bugs and Issues

Postby Arioch » Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:56 pm

Discontent population won't normally fight as Militia, which is probably why they're not showing up as Militia in the dialog. But any enslavable population will defend themselves if attacked by slavers. It's a display issue, and I'm not sure there's a straightforward solution.

Since the planet is in revolt, you can simply invade and capture the planet, and take all the slaves you want. So I'm not sure this is really a problem.

zolobolo wrote:Hope the slaves get a boost in the next update - would really enjoy the mechanic and like to play around with it but they are currently pulling down the economy hard (no food, no money). This would be ok, if they would pump out some more industry in exchange :)

What do you say to nullifying their growth rate (or at least slowing it down strongly) as well?

If you're playing as a slaver and you find yourself wanting slaves not to reproduce, then we're doing something wrong. The solution is to make slaves more useful, not to stop their reproduction.

Slaves do produce food, by the way.

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Re: Report - Current Bugs and Issues

Postby zolobolo » Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:03 pm

Arioch wrote:If you're playing as a slaver and you find yourself wanting slaves not to reproduce, then we're doing something wrong. The solution is to make slaves more useful, not to stop their reproduction.


Agreed. They should be more productive when considering their output in a single or in two fields (production and food, or production and money) but I was thinking that you might like to connect the two existing systems of raiding and buying slaves to a game mechanic. If slaves cannot reproduce, we are forced to buy or snatch them, making these mechanics very useful. But again, this all only makes sense if they are very useful in one or two things to begin with, hence the radical increase in production...

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Arioch
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Re: Report - Current Bugs and Issues

Postby Arioch » Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:09 pm

The value of slaves (and the impetus to get more) is supposed to be in being able to spend them for production or science boosts. The downside to doing this is in reputation hit and unhappiness of non-Gremak races, but if you're playing as a slaver and trying to get everyone to like you... I don't think you're fully embracing the Gremak way. :D

Try using the Forced Labor and Experiment actions to get more out of your slaves. If people still find that lacking, we can boost the value of the bonuses. I don't think making slaves inherently higher in production than normal colonists is a good idea; in addition to issues of making sense, I think it could create some perverse incentives (such as enslaving one's own people).

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Re: Report - Current Bugs and Issues

Postby zolobolo » Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:53 pm

I see... Forced Labor fast forwards the production on that specific planet for a turn...
I do not see forced Experiments as an option, nor as a research

But are you sure you would like to have this micro-managed? What if a player has around a 100 planets and uses this mechanic?
A flat-out bonus would always apply and by preventing their pro-creation, you would basically end up with the same result (their numbers are limited but the bonus applies)

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Arioch
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Re: Report - Current Bugs and Issues

Postby Arioch » Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:12 pm

"Experiment" is enabled on the current Dev build (r18355).

Using Forced Labor or Experiment reduces the slave population by 1 and triggers reputation and morale penalties. I don't think this is something that really can or should be automated.

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Re: Report - Current Bugs and Issues

Postby zolobolo » Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:34 pm

Yes, the moral penalty would be a bit more difficult to implement, you would have to settle for a flat penalty value...maybe proportional to the total percentage of enslaved population. The current system already applies though for all planets so you would not get a largely different result with a flat production bonus + flat moral penalty + static slave population compared to a tactic where you use slaves regularly (minus the micro)
Last edited by zolobolo on Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Chasm
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Re: Report - Current Bugs and Issues

Postby Chasm » Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:21 pm

Duplicating system names, game 1571 uploaded, please see Rigel system (both of them). 99 star map.

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TheDeadlyShoe
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Re: Report - Current Bugs and Issues

Postby TheDeadlyShoe » Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:45 pm

Steam version:

The unhappiness effect for 'Planet destroyed by x faction' displays the wrong planet in its additional text, i.e.:

after the planet Toliman I is destroyed by bombing, looking at a population on Farin II displays:

-10 :( : Toliman I Destroyed
Farin II was destroyed by the Yoral Khaganate!

Chasm
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Re: Report - Current Bugs and Issues

Postby Chasm » Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:33 am

Uploaded game 1575. I can mount fusion anti-missiles in a ship, when I have not researched anti missile technology.


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