Running out of fuel range

[projekcja]

If I build an outpost, thus extending the range I could travel to, and then send a fleet to the newly available region, and then scrap or lose the outpost, the result is currently that the fleet continues travelling to its destination, it can fight and stay there as long it wishes, and can at will travel anywhere that is in the empire's fuel range.
I feel like this behavior limits the effectiveness of defense through attacking the enemy supply lines, and I'd have rather seen either:
- the fleet being forced back mid trip,
or:
- The fleet reaches its destination, can attack for 1 turn, and then is forced to plot a course to any supplied destination (automatically directed to a nearby colony, user is allowed to redirect anywhere, but not to stay put)
or:
- the fleet becoming marooned on its destination until the empire's fuel supply range is restored. While marooned the fleet cannot plot a course back, doesn't get new supplies of missiles/interceptors between battles, etc.
or:
- the fleet gets destroyed. This may seem too harsh and unrealistic, but it does make strategy more interesting, as defending border colonies while an attack fleet is out becomes really important, and a superior enemy force can be defeated in the right circumstance.

[Arioch]

This is something that we already discussed, and a change for it is somewhere in the hopper, along with some other minor changes to movement. I don't remember exactly what we agreed upon (hopefully Sven wrote it down), but I think it's essentially that if a fleet finds itself out of range (due to whatever change), it will automatically head back to the nearest friendly system.

Another movement-related change in the queue is that if a ship escapes battle by retreating (which is jumping to hyperspace), then it will automatically head to the nearest friendly system. If the battle was in a friendly system, or if the owner has sufficient command range to immediately redirect the retreated ship(s), they still must spend at least one turn in hyperspace. This is to prevent enemy fleets from hanging around in your territory indefinitely.

We also plan to have some slower ships (such as transports and colony ships) require 2 tactical turns to retreat instead of 1.

[echo2361]

This is something that we already discussed, and a change for it is somewhere in the hopper, along with some other minor changes to movement. I don't remember exactly what we agreed upon (hopefully Sven wrote it down), but I think it's essentially that if a fleet finds itself out of range (due to whatever change), it will automatically head back to the nearest friendly system.

Another movement-related change in the queue is that if a ship escapes battle by retreating (which is jumping to hyperspace), then it will automatically head to the nearest friendly system. If the battle was in a friendly system, or if the owner has sufficient command range to immediately redirect the retreated ship(s), they still must spend at least one turn in hyperspace. This is to prevent enemy fleets from hanging around in your territory indefinitely.

We also plan to have some slower ships (such as transports and colony ships) require 2 tactical turns to retreat instead of 1.

Sounds good to me. I especially like the idea of civilian/non-combat ships taking longer to retreat in combat. This will encourage people to actually escort them instead of safely sending them anywhere with the ability to instantly retreat to safety is needed.

[sven]

This is something that we already discussed, and a change for it is somewhere in the hopper, along with some other minor changes to movement. I don't remember exactly what we agreed upon (hopefully Sven wrote it down), but I think it's essentially that if a fleet finds itself out of range (due to whatever change), it will automatically head back to the nearest friendly system.

Atm, the plan is to force ships that *arrive* in systems that they no longer have the range to reach to immediately redirect to the closest controlled star. The redirection would happen between turns, and the ships would never actually emerge in their destination system, and, thus, never have the chance to launch attacks (or even explore).

Another natural option, I think, would be to apply the redirection rule as soon as a fleet finds itself outside its effective strategic range. (Thus, if you cut the supply lines of a fleet 3 turns from it's destination, it would turn back immediately, rather than after 3 turns of travel time.)

From a gameplay perspective, I think the differences between "redirect on arrival" and "redirect when outside of range" have pretty much the same consequence -- as they both end up implying that cutting enemy supply lines is a fairly effective strategy. "Redirect on arrival" probably makes the strategy slightly stronger, as the out of range fleets may be penalized by a couple extra turns of useless motion. But, the main reason to choose the one rule, over the other, is probably world-building. And while I'm still not certain exactly how hyperspace and the warp-lane system works -- it does make some sense to me that the main problem facing a ship outside it's range would be returning to real-space.

[Arioch]

From a gameplay perspective, I think the differences between "redirect on arrival" and "redirect when outside of range" have pretty much the same consequence -- as they both end up implying that cutting enemy supply lines is a fairly effective strategy. "Redirect on arrival" probably makes the strategy slightly stronger, as the out of range fleets may be penalized by a couple extra turns of useless motion. But, the main reason to choose the one rule, over the other, is probably world-building. And while I'm still not certain exactly how hyperspace and the warp-lane system works -- it does make some sense to me that the main problem facing a ship outside it's range would be returning to real-space.

Both are equally weak in terms of world-building; realistically, a ship that found itself suddenly out of range would either be instantly destroyed or else would continue to its destination and be stranded there. I think those are much too severe in gameplay terms, so I prefer "redirect on arrival" as it imposes a slightly stronger penalty.

[Awaras]

From a gameplay perspective, I think the differences between "redirect on arrival" and "redirect when outside of range" have pretty much the same consequence -- as they both end up implying that cutting enemy supply lines is a fairly effective strategy. "Redirect on arrival" probably makes the strategy slightly stronger, as the out of range fleets may be penalized by a couple extra turns of useless motion. But, the main reason to choose the one rule, over the other, is probably world-building. And while I'm still not certain exactly how hyperspace and the warp-lane system works -- it does make some sense to me that the main problem facing a ship outside it's range would be returning to real-space.

Both are equally weak in terms of world-building; realistically, a ship that found itself suddenly out of range would either be instantly destroyed or else would continue to its destination and be stranded there. I think those are much too severe in gameplay terms, so I prefer "redirect on arrival" as it imposes a slightly stronger penalty.

Well, it's an abstracted system, and in order to define what should happen in certain edge cases we need to understand what that system represents in-universe. For example, in MOO2 I always assumed that there existed abstracted resupply convoys that topped up your fleets as long as they are close enough to one of your colonies. There were some illogical cases there too. For example, if you obtained a colony in a system on the other side of the map (by using a wormhole, or through diplomacy) your ships could travel all the way across the map and back without problems (although it would take them 20-30 turns or something like that).

[enpi]

From a gameplay perspective, I think the differences between "redirect on arrival" and "redirect when outside of range" have pretty much the same consequence -- as they both end up implying that cutting enemy supply lines is a fairly effective strategy. "Redirect on arrival" probably makes the strategy slightly stronger, as the out of range fleets may be penalized by a couple extra turns of useless motion. But, the main reason to choose the one rule, over the other, is probably world-building. And while I'm still not certain exactly how hyperspace and the warp-lane system works -- it does make some sense to me that the main problem facing a ship outside it's range would be returning to real-space.

Both are equally weak in terms of world-building; realistically, a ship that found itself suddenly out of range would either be instantly destroyed or else would continue to its destination and be stranded there. I think those are much too severe in gameplay terms, so I prefer "redirect on arrival" as it imposes a slightly stronger penalty.

Well, it's an abstracted system, and in order to define what should happen in certain edge cases we need to understand what that system represents in-universe. For example, in MOO2 I always assumed that there existed abstracted resupply convoys that topped up your fleets as long as they are close enough to one of your colonies. There were some illogical cases there too. For example, if you obtained a colony in a system on the other side of the map (by using a wormhole, or through diplomacy) your ships could travel all the way across the map and back without problems (although it would take them 20-30 turns or something like that).

Why not? Who knows how MOO2 intellar hyperdrive tech is working? So no illogical case at all here. I am sure the designer can invent half a dozen pseudo tech explanations on the fly why this is possible or not. (...it can travel home, because the hyperdrive flux cables which all ships are using in the MOO universe store enough negative energy, its like a rubber band)

[Awaras]

Why not? Who knows how MOO2 intellar hyperdrive tech is working? So no illogical case at all here. I am sure the designer can invent half a dozen pseudo tech explanations on the fly why this is possible or not. (...it can travel home, because the hyperdrive flux cables which all ships are using in the MOO universe store enough negative energy, its like a rubber band)

Sure, you can always come up with a rationalization for anything.

The hyperdrive has fairies in it! Shutup!

All I am saying is that in order for the game to make sense to the player, there needs to be some well defined rules and they need to be internally consistent.