any feedback on which mods were implemented in vanilla

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siyoa
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any feedback on which mods were implemented in vanilla

Postby siyoa » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:21 pm

what title says ... mainly mods from harpy eagle on strategy and AI improvements (ship design, AI research), I know Sven plan was to implement them into the vanilla game (some of them at least) ... so before I figure it out the hard way, anyone have some insight ? thanks :idea:
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sven
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Re: any feedback on which mods were implemented in vanilla

Postby sven » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:23 am

siyoa wrote:what title says ... mainly mods from harpy eagle on strategy and AI improvements (ship design, AI research), I know Sven plan was to implement them into the vanilla game (some of them at least) ... so before I figure it out the hard way, anyone have some insight ? thanks :idea:


Right now, in the beta branch, 3 of harpy eagle's mods have been officially integrated into vanilla: "Tactical Combat AI", "More Varied Research Paths", and "Strategic AI". I'll probably roll in a version of his "Autodesign and AI Ship Variety" mod as well, but that status of that mod in beta is a little fuzzier, because it will need to be carefully woven in with some other changes I've made in the beta build.

None of those mod integration patches have been posted on the main Steam / GoG branch yet.

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harpy eagle
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Re: any feedback on which mods were implemented in vanilla

Postby harpy eagle » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:50 am

I'm not entirely sure if that mod is ready to be integrated its current state.

The goal was to get the AI to create different loadout variations for the same hull, and get it build a mix of different loadouts (modulo a possible focus on certain loadouts based on its personality, perhaps) of the same ship type much like how it already builds a mix of different ship types.

I guess it shouldn't be much more than adding some new loadout based flags that can be added to the ship classification, and then updating the navy composition code but... I just haven't done it yet.

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siyoa
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Re: any feedback on which mods were implemented in vanilla

Postby siyoa » Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:39 pm

thanks for info :-)

I have to shamefully admit ;-) that I drifted away from pure 4x genre this winter, just finished S.P.A.Z. (never played it before) and am dabbing very lightly at Star Traders: Frontiers
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rhinoinsomniac
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Re: any feedback on which mods were implemented in vanilla

Postby rhinoinsomniac » Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:43 pm

the mod that zolobolo and siyoa wrote for the gremak raiders nerf is pretty essential imo. the raiders in a brutal game hurt the player by being a zone of space the player can't colonize unless they're at peace with them or stronger than them (which isn't likely given their large fleets) but the AI empires don't seem to understand colonizing those areas is a bad idea. they waste resources and it hampers their empire having to deal constantly with the raiders.

so the raiders are just annoying for the player but they really hurt the AI empires it seems. have they been nerfed a bit in the testing branch? i know that mod is old and hasn't been implemented to live version

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Re: any feedback on which mods were implemented in vanilla

Postby sven » Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:28 pm

rhinoinsomniac wrote:so the raiders are just annoying for the player but they really hurt the AI empires it seems. have they been nerfed a bit in the testing branch? i know that mod is old and hasn't been implemented to live version


I nerfed the raider strengths and spawn rates pretty aggressively in back in November (r37841). I'm not sure how those changes compare to the zolobolo/siyoa mod -- one of them is probably more qualified to comment on that than I am.

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Re: any feedback on which mods were implemented in vanilla

Postby zolobolo » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:18 pm

sven wrote:I nerfed the raider strengths and spawn rates pretty aggressively in back in November (r37841). I'm not sure how those changes compare to the zolobolo/siyoa mod -- one of them is probably more qualified to comment on that than I am.

Yes, the raiders have been considerably nerfed on the DEV branch - more then in my mod

I have been playing quite a lot withouth any mods (except for the Shield Regen mod form Harpy Eagle) for several months now as the game is difficult enough withouth them. I always play on normal and have lost around 2 games in the last month which after playing 900+ hours is very, very good balance

In their current state the raiders are too idle: while their progression seems ok (they might even get a tiny bit more resources but not much), they could now be more agressive towards the AI and take slaves from them. I think their inactivity is not connected to the nerfe but rather to a change which prevented them (or makes it very unlikely) to attack the AI

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Re: any feedback on which mods were implemented in vanilla

Postby sven » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:45 pm

zolobolo wrote:In their current state the raiders are too idle: while their progression seems ok (they might even get a tiny bit more resources but not much), they could now be more agressive towards the AI and take slaves from them. I think their inactivity is not connected to the nerfe but rather to a change which prevented them (or makes it very unlikely) to attack the AI


Yeah, there was a patch back at the end of 2017 that made the default AI/Marauder interaction peaceful, rather than hostile. (Essentially, the AI will just always get and follow peaceful dialog options when interacting with them.) The change should have been live on Steam for most of 2018 -- so if you see AIs fighting Marauders in current games, it's probably some flavor of logic bug. That said, I'll also agree that peaceful AI/Marauder behaviors are not quite ideal. In particular, powerful AIs should probably gobble up Marauder bases when they get the opportunity, and as you say, *some* evidence of slave taking from neighboring AI empires would be a nice flavor thing.

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Arioch
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Re: any feedback on which mods were implemented in vanilla

Postby Arioch » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:48 am

sven wrote:That said, I'll also agree that peaceful AI/Marauder behaviors are not quite ideal. In particular, powerful AIs should probably gobble up Marauder bases when they get the opportunity, and as you say, *some* evidence of slave taking from neighboring AI empires would be a nice flavor thing.

In terms of what the player can see, it's sufficient for the Marauder bases to have slaves of the appropriate races from its neighbors (which I think it already does). Although having the AI and Marauders fight sounds cool, the player doesn't see it, so all it does is weaken the AI factions.

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Re: any feedback on which mods were implemented in vanilla

Postby AMX » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:56 am

Arioch wrote:In terms of what the player can see, it's sufficient for the Marauder bases to have slaves of the appropriate races from its neighbors (which I think it already does). Although having the AI and Marauders fight sounds cool, the player doesn't see it, so all it does is weaken the AI factions.

I can't say I've noticed that - from what I've seen they almost always have Ashdar, very rarely Humans, and anything else only when they actually managed to do a successful raid.

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Re: any feedback on which mods were implemented in vanilla

Postby zolobolo » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:22 pm

They have started with those factions yes but now get automatically neighboring pops as slaves

I am for dynamic slave raiding - maybe instead of invading, they should only but always raid. Player can see what is happening: alliance shared vision, territory outline changes and transports that do not cloak signal this activity

Think of the dynamic gameplay this can have: such as the player hunting for Marauding fleets before they can return to their base: free slaves and no bad rep from the AI empire for buying them :) There would also be no sense to have transports for them if they do not actually raid as their other purpose: invading planets, is not the optimal behaviour for them. If they raid and then go home isntead of occupying the whole planet, they also do not hurt the AI empires that much compared to taking the whole planet


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