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sven
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Re: Report - Current Bugs and Issues

Postby sven » Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:29 pm

bevo wrote:Playing as Orthin, I researched "Battleship". The research screen shows I have it, but it does not show in the Ship Design screens. Uploaded as Game_368.


Hrm, yes, that's a bug. The battleship design should be restricted to Humans, Yoral, and Gremak. I've added the appropriate tech restriction in the dev build (r13108), but, it will only take effect in new games. Thanks for the report.

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Re: Report - Current Bugs and Issues

Postby sven » Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:59 pm

sven wrote:
bevo wrote:I just uploaded logs for game 339. This is an obvious and minor issue, so you probably already know about it. At the end of a battle, the results window seems to always say "DRAW" regardless of what happened. This occurred several times and at different planets.. whether I was clearly defeated or victorious. However, the small display next to the planet afterward correctly indicated "victory" or "defeat"


This one is proving to be a bit tricky. Essentially, what seems to be happening is that the battle record being saved is incomplete for some reason -- ending before all the ships of one side or the other have been destroyed. I'm not yet sure why this happens, but, I am looking into it.


I found a data corruption glitch in the case of battles that had been reloaded / reopened. There's a chance that this was the root cause behind these incorrect "DRAW" results. The data corruption bug should be patched in 'stable'. Let me know if you see the glitch in the more recent builds.

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Re: Report - Current Bugs and Issues

Postby projekcja » Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:43 am

in build 13115, I found the following issues:
* When escaping while in a system you have a colony in (i.e. if you're the defending party), your ship escapes back to the same system - effectively taking a U turn in hyperspace. This is bad for civilian ships, that may escape only to be surely intercepted and destroyed the next turn, as well as feeling too convenient for ships that spent their missiles etc and are returning for a 2nd attack.
Of course this doesn't matter much once you have at least range 1 command, so that you can manually change course, but still I'd much rather see the default destination of an escaping ship be the nearest colony excluding colonies in the same system - as it was in MOO1/2.

* Bombers seem to have a finite ammunition - after a few runs, they will keep going to the target and back but they will not deal any damage. Without any indication in the UI as to the number of bombs left, this feels like a bug, as there is not even a warning that the ammunition is over, and you keep being able to send them out. I'm also a bit concerned about their fragility. Are there any plans on making a module that could reconstruct lost bombers/interceptors during combat?

* The early 'small craft' tech is a bit of a tease, as it gives you a system you cannot deploy until much later in the game. I suggest either making it give a primitive carrier ship to build, or moving it up the tech tree to come together or after you get your first carrier-ship design.

* The Phidi troop transport takes only 1 turn to escape. I know there was a plan for it to be somehow special, but having 1 race have the old indestructible easy escape mechanic for that ship feels off. I'd rather see all ships taking 2 turns to escape, but having enough HP to be able to take the initial hit of most neutral nodes' 2 light cruisers, and escape with minor damage.
I'd also rather see the scouts' "Warp Lane Amplifier" allowing to redirect from escaping an engagement to exploring the next system instead of going back to base were you get instantly fully repaired - that way you have a choice between a safe option - repair after each engagement and usually being able to survive the volley, and a risky but faster option of going on exploring with the damage from a previous engagement, while having a higher chance of being destroyed due to previous damage.
It would also make warp lane amplifiers very attractive for harassments and hit and run attacks, at the price of losing a system slot that could be used for shields or bulkheads instead.

* Combat UI: I often found myself wanting to select my entire fleet, to quickly resolve a combat by letting loose all ordnance, and moving all ships at once. It could be nice if there was a UI element that allowed you to do that, instead of having to create a box around a big fleet (requires scrolling a bit).

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Re: Report - Current Bugs and Issues

Postby sven » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:09 pm

projekcja wrote:in build 13115, I found the following issues:
* Bombers seem to have a finite ammunition - after a few runs, they will keep going to the target and back but they will not deal any damage. Without any indication in the UI as to the number of bombs left, this feels like a bug, as there is not even a warning that the ammunition is over, and you keep being able to send them out. I'm also a bit concerned about their fragility. Are there any plans on making a module that could reconstruct lost bombers/interceptors during combat?


Definitely a bug. Should be fixed in the next update.

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Re: Report - Current Bugs and Issues

Postby Arioch » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:16 pm

projekcja wrote:When escaping while in a system you have a colony in (i.e. if you're the defending party), your ship escapes back to the same system - effectively taking a U turn in hyperspace. This is bad for civilian ships, that may escape only to be surely intercepted and destroyed the next turn, as well as feeling too convenient for ships that spent their missiles etc and are returning for a 2nd attack.

Whether it's good or bad depends on the situation; if you handily win the battle (and had your civilian ships retreat to avoid damage), then you'll have to chase them down and reform your fleet.

projekcja wrote:Bombers seem to have a finite ammunition - after a few runs, they will keep going to the target and back but they will not deal any damage. Without any indication in the UI as to the number of bombs left, this feels like a bug, as there is not even a warning that the ammunition is over, and you keep being able to send them out.

This sounds like a bug.

projekcja wrote:I'm also a bit concerned about their fragility. Are there any plans on making a module that could reconstruct lost bombers/interceptors during combat?

I agree that small craft are too fragile and underpowered. One of the balance things we want to do is to make it so point defense will sometimes force a fighter to miss instead of being destroyed. Another is to allow a squadron to make multiple attacks before returning to the carrier to reload. I also think that the number of fighters carried (and the number of hangar slots) should be increased on carriers.

I don't think that either small craft or missiles should be unlimited or regenerating; their effectiveness should be balanced around being in limited supply.

projekcja wrote:I'd also rather see the scouts' "Warp Lane Amplifier" allowing to redirect from escaping an engagement to exploring the next system instead of going back to base were you get instantly fully repaired - that way you have a choice between a safe option - repair after each engagement and usually being able to survive the volley, and a risky but faster option of going on exploring with the damage from a previous engagement, while having a higher chance of being destroyed due to previous damage.
It would also make warp lane amplifiers very attractive for harassments and hit and run attacks, at the price of losing a system slot that could be used for shields or bulkheads instead.

The recent change is meant to prevent this kind of harassment. Retreating from combat should have a cost.

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Re: Report - Current Bugs and Issues

Postby sven » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:28 pm

Arioch wrote:
projekcja wrote:When escaping while in a system you have a colony in (i.e. if you're the defending party), your ship escapes back to the same system - effectively taking a U turn in hyperspace. This is bad for civilian ships, that may escape only to be surely intercepted and destroyed the next turn, as well as feeling too convenient for ships that spent their missiles etc and are returning for a 2nd attack.

Whether it's good or bad depends on the situation; if you handily win the battle (and had your civilian ships retreat to avoid damage), then you'll have to chase them down and reform your fleet.


It is perhaps worth noting that Arioch and I have been playing around with the details of this edge case. Right now, the rule for ships retreating from a battle inside a system that they control is that they will "loop back" after retreating. However, if the empire loses control of the system before the end of the turn (for example, if the colony they were defending is destroyed), then the retreating ships will change their destination to the next closest controlled system.

I'm still not certain this is the best possible mechanic -- but, I think it's reasonable enough. As I recall, MOO2 never re-routed ships that retreated from controlled systems -- which was indeed very convenient for missile ships. It's less convenient for civilians -- and the potential for a civilian fleet to be "trapped" at a star by a raiding fleet does feel a bit problematic.

One possible further rule tweak would be to say that ships retreating from a controlled system are always in command range -- giving you the option of choosing where they head off to, even if you don't otherwise have the proper techs. That's a somewhat confusing rule though -- as I don't think it's terribly intuitive why retreating fleets in some situations have options that other's don't.

edit: I'm starting to think that placing fleets that have retreated from a system that their side controls inside command range is pretty reasonable rule tweak -- and perhaps not really that odd after all. This is a change that may well make it into the next update, unless Arioch talks me out of it :)

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Re: Report - Current Bugs and Issues

Postby Arioch » Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:11 pm

I'm fine with being able to redirect retreated fleets, as long as they observe the penalty of having to remain at least 1 turn in hyperspace.

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Re: Report - Current Bugs and Issues

Postby projekcja » Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:43 pm

When an enemy fleet moved into my system of Dziban and was about to get there in 1 turn, I rushed the construction of a ship to defend the colony. I expected my ship to be there to defend the colony, but instead the enemy fleet got there first and blockaded the system, delaying construction and bombing the colony. I think this kind of behavior is counter-intuitive and should be changed.

Uploaded game 384

Later on, in a battle in the Gienah system, after destroying all my ships, the missiles from the Planetary defenses targeted the planet, almost wiping it out through friendly fire. Uploaded game 385.

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Re: Report - Current Bugs and Issues

Postby sven » Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:12 pm

projekcja wrote:When an enemy fleet moved into my system of Dziban and was about to get there in 1 turn, I rushed the construction of a ship to defend the colony. I expected my ship to be there to defend the colony, but instead the enemy fleet got there first and blockaded the system, delaying construction and bombing the colony. I think this kind of behavior is counter-intuitive and should be changed.


This is indeed a bug -- you should have had a destroyer at Dziban before the Haduir arrived.

I can't replicate the bug, however. When I roll back time to stardate 1156, and click "Next Turn", the destroyer at Dziban is produced.

It's possible that this was a one-time bug, related in some way to the changes to the construction system. If you notice it happening again, please let me know.

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Re: Report - Current Bugs and Issues

Postby sven » Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:30 pm

projekcja wrote:Later on, in a battle in the Gienah system, after destroying all my ships, the missiles from the Planetary defenses targeted the planet, almost wiping it out through friendly fire. Uploaded game 385.


Should be fixed on 'dev'. Thanks for the report.

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Re: Report - Current Bugs and Issues

Postby projekcja » Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:39 pm

In game 390, I made only 1 AI, so that they have no enemies to go around destroying their colonies, I made some planetary defenses and waited. The AI never amassed a significant fleet.

At the last battle, I see some strange behavior: 22 of my interceptors are sent to a small group of missiles. they hit the missiles, and stop to go back. the rest of the enemy missiles hit my planet. Bombers on the other hand, kill 1 enemy ship, and move to the next again and again till the enemy fleet is completely destroyed.

I'd expect the interceptors to be better at being given the mission: intercept all missiles heading to the Planet.

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Re: Report - Current Bugs and Issues

Postby sven » Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:07 pm

projekcja wrote:In game 390, I made only 1 AI, so that they have no enemies to go around destroying their colonies, I made some planetary defenses and waited. The AI never amassed a significant fleet.


Yeah, I think the core problem here, as such, is that you're a lot better at efficient, early game expansion than the current AI is. When the two of you made contact, you already had twice as large an economy. One option we've talked about is to give the player a start time handicap -- so the AIs would have 50 turns or so to expand before the player starts taking turns. These poor Teros certainly could have used that kind of assistance :)

The second problem is that the AI is bad at dealing with planetary defences. It still tends to throw most of it's ships away trying to take out defenses, either because it attacks with too few ships, or because it uses what ships it has poorly in the tactical battle. Just teaching it how to stand off and bombard relatively intelligently should help with this. The reason the AI never had much of a fleet, in this game, is that it kept on throwing away what ships it was building, trying to get through the defenses on your frontier planets.

projekcja wrote:At the last battle, I see some strange behavior: 22 of my interceptors are sent to a small group of missiles. they hit the missiles, and stop to go back. the rest of the enemy missiles hit my planet. Bombers on the other hand, kill 1 enemy ship, and move to the next again and again till the enemy fleet is completely destroyed.

I'd expect the interceptors to be better at being given the mission: intercept all missiles heading to the Planet.


That's a bug, the interceptors should "chain attacks" much like the bombers. Thanks for reporting it.

edited by sven: Should be fixed as of r13292.

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Re: Report - Current Bugs and Issues

Postby Gyrfalcon » Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:20 pm

I started the game, opened Options, turned Fullscreen off, and closed the game. When I started it again, I'm back at fullscreen again.
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Re: Report - Current Bugs and Issues

Postby sven » Sat Jul 18, 2015 7:34 pm

Gyrfalcon wrote:I started the game, opened Options, turned Fullscreen off, and closed the game. When I started it again, I'm back at fullscreen again.


I'm hoping this is finally fixed on 'dev' (r13223). Would you let me know if it's still manifesting for you?

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Re: Report - Current Bugs and Issues

Postby Gyrfalcon » Sun Jul 19, 2015 3:57 pm

Not yet: Start game, Options, Fullscreen clicked off, close options, Exit to Windows, start again, in full screen.
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