Bug Report Archive

[Dinkelsen]

In the latest dev build (r12378) when you open the design of an Orthin Escort Cruiser in the ship designer, the escort cruiser graphical component is missing. The same when building them. In the project selection (and design selection) screen, the icons look ok.

[sven]

In the latest dev build (r12378) when you open the design of an Orthin Escort Cruiser in the ship designer, the escort cruiser graphical component is missing. The same when building them. In the project selection (and design selection) screen, the icons look ok.

hrm. i was only able to replicate this one occasionally, but, i have a theory about what was causing it. hopefully, it's fixed on dev (r12380). let me know if you see it again.

[sven]

SiS consistently crashing when trying to load saved games.

Audio suddenly stops and I get a SiS.exe unexpectedly stops message if I exit back out to the desktop.

So.. I load up a game or I play the game for 2-3 hours and the game crashes. I knew about the time hitting a limit were the game crashes. but loading saves if bugged too?

The latest stable build, r12378, includes some changes to dramatically cut back on the texture footprint of planets. I'm hoping this will improve stability on machines with integrated Intel graphics (the Intel HD 4xxx series, in particular). It may also improve performance in some hardware setups.

Let me know if you guys are still seeing crashes when playing on the latest build.

[AzraelRavenwing]

Nah I loaded up a game from earlier and its running just fine. no crashes or anything on me so far.

[Big Imp]

Uploaded 220-226 and I have a suspicion, that is a fleet hidden in Acamar even though it is not showing. I saw a fleet incoming but the next turn it disappeared. Even though it would take a couple of turn arriving. I don't know if I have missed something, if the fleet can go into stealth mode while travelling?

Yeah, Dinkelsen is indeed correct. The problem here is that you haven't scouted Alioth -- the red dwarf just below Acamar; and the Gremak have a fleet there. The fleet is inside your scanner range, but, the current detection rules imply that you can't see ships inside systems you haven't explored -- no matter how close those systems are to your own bases.

The idea behind this rule is that if you need to explore a system to figure out whether or not it contains planets, you also probably need to explore it before you can detect enemy fleets.

Alioth is only 1 turn from Acamar, so as soon as the Gremak set course for your world, they arrive without warning. I'm open to debating the fleet visibility rule -- we've switched it around a few times in the last few months. But, atm, this is "working as intended". Right now, leaving nearby systems unexplored has some serious strategic costs.

To add a note, - I agree I shouldn't be able to see a fleet in a system I haven't explored. But when they are in my system I should be able to see them, not until the whole fleet has arrived from diff. systems and want to attack.
How do I explain it what I have experienced... I see a fleet incoming one turn before the they arrive in my system. But when I press next turn, nothing is in my system.
What I am trying to say is that I should be able to see them the minute they are within my radar range. Not when it decides to attack me. It seems like the game is hiding the fleet before it knows it has outnumbered me.

[Gyrfalcon]

What seems to be happening is that the fleet that attacked you was sitting still in a neighboring system the turn before. The opponent decided to attack. The fleet starts moving, but is close enough that it arrives the next turn.

So, the turn before the attack, there wasn't a fleet moving toward you, so it didn't show up on your radar. The next turn, the fleet is already at your system and attacks, so it seems to have come from nowhere. The underlying mechanic is that you are being punished, appropriately, for not having surveyed your close neighbors.

[Big Imp]

What seems to be happening is that the fleet that attacked you was sitting still in a neighboring system the turn before. The opponent decided to attack. The fleet starts moving, but is close enough that it arrives the next turn.

So, the turn before the attack, there wasn't a fleet moving toward you, so it didn't show up on your radar. The next turn, the fleet is already at your system and attacks, so it seems to have come from nowhere. The underlying mechanic is that you are being punished, appropriately, for not having surveyed your close neighbors.

And my point is also, what if they come from different systems and not just my neighbour system? I have seen 3 incoming fleets from diff. systems and they just vanish(not arriving at the same time). And appear out of the blue when all fleets are in my system.

[sven]

And my point is also, what if they come from different systems and not just my neighbour system? I have seen 3 incoming fleets from diff. systems and they just vanish(not arriving at the same time). And appear out of the blue when all fleets are in my system.

Yeah, I'm taking another look through your saves, and it's clear that there are some bugs here. The first problem I see is that you're sometimes seeing fleets that should be hidden from you -- so they appear to pop in and out of visibility in odd ways.

But even if the bugs are fixed, your situation is still going to create some odd behaviors under the current rules. Right now, a fleet will show up on your scanners if it's both in scanner range, and at least one of the following applies:

1) It's inside a system you've explored
2) It's moving to a system you've explored
3) It's moving away from a system you've explored.

Rules 2) and 3) start to have odd consequences when you're dealing with an enemy that has one of the extended communications techs, which gives them the power to change the destinations of their fleets while they're in transit. So, for example, in your game, you have some Gremak ships that are flying between two different stars that you've never explored, and are thus invisible. But, those ships have flight paths that take them quite close to Acamar -- and sometimes the Gremak decide to change the destination of those ships in mid-flight. If that destination change means that rule 2) applies, then the Gremak suddenly show up on your scanners.

This makes for some real weirdness -- as when the fleet destinations change, the Gremak ships can start disappearing and reappearing in ways that don't make a whole lot of intuitive sense. I think Arioch and I need to think again about just what the detection rules here should be. I'd say a patch of some sort is likely in the not-too-distant future.

[Gyrfalcon]

1) It's inside a system you've explored
2) It's moving to a system you've explored
3) It's moving away from a system you've explored.

It seems odd to me that my space radar doesn't pick up anything that is moving in space within its range. I'd think I can detect anything that is moving within my scanner range. Not being able to see ships near a planet makes sense since my space radar either can't distinguish them against the background noise of a planetary system or relies on detecting their FTL drive. But, once the ships are out of the system and have engaged their FTL, I don't understand why I don't detect them regardless of where they come from or are going to. It would also be nice to receive a warning when ships heading to one of my systems are detected, but that probably belongs in a Suggestion thread.

[sven]

1) It's inside a system you've explored
2) It's moving to a system you've explored
3) It's moving away from a system you've explored.

It seems odd to me that my space radar doesn't pick up anything that is moving in space within its range. I'd think I can detect anything that is moving within my scanner range. Not being able to see ships near a planet makes sense since my space radar either can't distinguish them against the background noise of a planetary system or relies on detecting their FTL drive. But, once the ships are out of the system and have engaged their FTL, I don't understand why I don't detect them regardless of where they come from or are going to.

Yeah, Arioch and I have talked about this one, and we both agree with you here. As of r12417 (currently on dev) this is the way the scanning system works. Ships in hyperspace are now always detectable, regardless of destination.

There's still some weirdness that can happen if the enemy fleet has an unexplored system well inside your scanner range. For example, in Big Imp's game, there's a moment where the Gremak are sending a large collection of ships at Acamar. He sees them coming when they're 2 turns out, but, when he shores up his defenses, the AI responds by re-routing the attack fleet to a nearby unexplored system. And when they arrive there, they disappear from his map.

It's strange -- but also more or less in keeping with the kind of strategic environment we're trying to create: if there's a place near your planets where the enemy can effectively hide, then they can and will drop off your scanners anytime they decide to take refuge there.

It would also be nice to receive a warning when ships heading to one of my systems are detected, but that probably belongs in a Suggestion thread.

I could imagine such warnings getting a bit spammy in certain game situations, but, yeah, it sounds like a pretty good idea to me. And it's also the sort of small, quick project I could probably sneak into a day's TODO list in the not too distant future...

[JohnnyW00t]

I invaded a system with defending destroyers and a planetary defense. I destroyed the defending ships and captured a couple of them. I didn't have enough missiles left to destroy the planetary defenses, so I retreated my fleet. The ships that I captured were heavily damaged - no movement, no weapons, no self destruct. Perhaps I hit them with an EMP? I don't recall to be sure. Anyways, after retreating my ships I was stuck because I had no way to exit the combat screen. If self destruct is not an option because the ship is disabled, how about a weaker "scuttle ship" option that does not have a reactor explosion?

Uploaded as "game_241" if you want to take a look.

[Arioch]

I invaded a system with defending destroyers and a planetary defense. I destroyed the defending ships and captured a couple of them. I didn't have enough missiles left to destroy the planetary defenses, so I retreated my fleet. The ships that I captured were heavily damaged - no movement, no weapons, no self destruct. Perhaps I hit them with an EMP? I don't recall to be sure. Anyways, after retreating my ships I was stuck because I had no way to exit the combat screen. If self destruct is not an option because the ship is disabled, how about a weaker "scuttle ship" option that does not have a reactor explosion?

Uploaded as "game_241" if you want to take a look.

The desired behavior for captured vessels is that they should be unable to act for the rest of the battle, because it's silly that a high-tech starship's computers wouldn't have safeguards to prevent you from using an enemy's ship against the rest of their fleet, at least within the time context of a battle. I'm guessing that's what you've run into. Naturally, this new behavior causes other problems.

There should probably be a trigger that ends combat if either side has no units left that can act. Maybe it should be a dialog that asks the player if he wants to end combat, rather than ending it automatically, allowing for unforeseen situations.

This gets tricky when dealing with captured ships. It seems to me that if combat is ended in such a case, then any captured vessels should revert to the control of whoever owns the planet/system; if no one does, they should probably be destroyed. You should be required to win a battle in order to retain control of captured vessels.

[sven]

I invaded a system with defending destroyers and a planetary defense. I destroyed the defending ships and captured a couple of them. I didn't have enough missiles left to destroy the planetary defenses, so I retreated my fleet. The ships that I captured were heavily damaged - no movement, no weapons, no self destruct. Perhaps I hit them with an EMP? I don't recall to be sure. Anyways, after retreating my ships I was stuck because I had no way to exit the combat screen. If self destruct is not an option because the ship is disabled, how about a weaker "scuttle ship" option that does not have a reactor explosion?

Under the current rules, in a situation like the one you're describing here, you should be able to hit ESC to open the game menu, then hit CLOSE to go back to the galaxy map. If you then hit "Next Turn" without re-opening the battle, the combat should auto-resolve. In this case, I *think* the result of that auto-resolve will be that you'll get to keep the captured ships. Though, as Arioch points out, that's not necessarily an ideal way of resolving the situation.

In the not to distant future, we should be adding an "auto resolve" button somewhere in the tactical HUD, and that will give you an easier way of triggering the autoresolve behavior than the current ESC->CLOSE->Next Turn formula -- which is admittedly bizarre.

Further on down the line, I think we will want to add some sort of optional "End Combat?" popup based on an algorithm for detecting battles that are effectively stalemated. That's delicate piece of coding though -- and a project that I probably won't attempt until the tactical mechanics are a lot closer to finalized.

[JohnnyW00t]

In the not to distant future, we should be adding an "auto resolve" button somewhere in the tactical HUD, and that will give you an easier way of triggering the autoresolve behavior than the current ESC->CLOSE->Next Turn formula -- which is admittedly bizarre.

That makes sense, thanks.

[AzraelRavenwing]

So. The game updated for me, and now, I cant get past the updater. every time I hit play, even running in Admin, it wont let me past the Updater. it just keeps restarting the game saying its up to date though.