Suggestion: Make building super-dreadnoughts (and mobile planetoids) require capturing the ancient dreadnought first

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harpy eagle
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Suggestion: Make building super-dreadnoughts (and mobile planetoids) require capturing the ancient dreadnought first

Postby harpy eagle » Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:39 pm

Hi, I'd like suggest that the super-dreadnought tech (and all techs that depend on it) only become researchable once the ancient dreadnought that can be found on a random star system is captured and reverse-engineered.

This is more about the feel of the game than anything else, but I think it's a good idea for a few reasons:

Super-dreadnoughts look the same for all species, and so in the admittedly hypothetical situation everyone progresses to that tech level and starts building them, their ships will start looking the same. By restricting it as above, it's precursor-like look stands out more once it does appear.

If you haven't encountered the ancient dreadnought before, it's appearance (as in the look of the ship, and as in the tech tree) can be strange:

For example, as the Phidi, it's really cool how the tech tree is different than for other species when it comes to warship hulls. But then there is this super-dreadnought thing (not to mention the death star) way at the back that is presented as a standard Phidi tech.

And e.g. as Orthin, it was also strange how the super dreadnought did not resemble any of my other ship hulls until I knew about the ancient dreadnought encounter. By having the tech appear once the ancient dreadnought is salvaged, it reinforces the connection.

zolobolo
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Re: Suggestion: Make building super-dreadnoughts (and mobile planetoids) require capturing the ancient dreadnought first

Postby zolobolo » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:07 pm

Thematically I like the idea. It makes sense from a lore perspective as why would all these various races all come to the exact same design solution?

But there is the small issue of the AI not capturing the vessel yet which would prevent the AI from utilizing the tech in late game.
If implemented, I suggest to allow salvage of the tech even if the ship is destroyed as the AI does sometimes do that and it would still limit the amount of faction capable of producing this ship the maximum amount of "derelict" ships available + for those who manage to capture and reverse engineer it form the AI faction :)

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Arioch
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Re: Suggestion: Make building super-dreadnoughts (and mobile planetoids) require capturing the ancient dreadnought first

Postby Arioch » Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:42 am

There is at most one ancient super-dreadnought on a map. Requiring capture of this to build SD's means at most one faction in a game can ever build them, and this might not be the player's faction.

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harpy eagle
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Re: Suggestion: Make building super-dreadnoughts (and mobile planetoids) require capturing the ancient dreadnought first

Postby harpy eagle » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:55 pm

I understand that. I thought it might be fine if the player can then capture the AI's super-dreadnoughts, but I guess that's a game design call.

I also figured that the super-dreadnoughts could be adjusted slightly around them being a kind of exclusive thing to have, if needed.

It's just strange how in longer games everyone starts using fleets of super-dreads.

zolobolo
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Re: Suggestion: Make building super-dreadnoughts (and mobile planetoids) require capturing the ancient dreadnought first

Postby zolobolo » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:39 pm

Agreed that the Super dred and Mobile Planetoid need to be a kind of exclusive or at least rare unit

This is obviously due to the fact that in the end-game all AIs start to mass-produce the same two designs independently from their unique faction designs. Especially before tactical AI and shield rebalance mod this was sort of logical for the AI to do as everything else is just creamed all over their shield when not thrown at them by Human player

One suggestion of mine tried to combined a planned feature of flagships with the concept of rarity when it comes not just for the top two generic vessel types, but for all capital ships:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=655

But staying in reality what would be the simplest fix is:
1. Increase Production but at least upkeep cost of top two tier ships
2. Strategic AI decreases production priority of all capital ships but especially these top two making for balanced fleets and more interesting engagements
3. Make siege weapons exclusive to Super Dred (and Orthin Gunboat) so it has its function and making the investment worth (currently Mobile Planet can also mount this)
4. Make Stellar Surge Beam exclusive to Mobile Planet for the same reason (currently super dread can also mount this)

The last two points are necessary to make the production of these extra expensive units a viable option as they both serve a specific but rare function within a fleet.
There would be no reason to have two of these types of ships within the same fleet as their function does not stack and they would not be cost effective in combat


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