Siege weapons are still broken

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eric
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:13 pm

Siege weapons are still broken

Postby eric » Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:34 pm

The stellar surge beam now cost 45 metal and 750 energy on super dreadnaughts, while cost 90 metal and 900 energy on dread star. This is different from how it was before the update, but obviously still broken.
As siege weapons are broken, so does the dread star. The dread star still claim to have 6 siege weapon slots, while actually shoot 3(1 front 2 back) visually and shoot 2 in terms of damage.
I have a very long post both here and on the steam forum, but the developers seems to be too busy to repair it. I understand that siege weapons and the dread star are late game stuff and therefore not that important, but it’s a bit disappointing to see those ultimate weapons to be weak and broken.

Chasm
Posts: 568
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:14 pm

Re: Siege weapons are still broken

Postby Chasm » Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:09 pm

This is actually related to the weapon type mismatch.

Dreadstars use:

Hardpoint 'MaskedBeamMounts' {
part_id={12,13},
mtype = "SuperHeavy",
},

vs

{mtype="Siege", n=5, mlocation=1,space=30},

for all other siege weapon users (Super Dreadnought, Orthin Dreadnought, Orthin gunship).
I have a feeling that perhaps dreadstars are only supposed to have 2 siege weapons, but only the devs can say that for sure. Since no quantity is listed per mount, I am fairly certain it is supposed to be 1 per.
The metal difference is due to the fact that dreadstars have a double metal cost, while they have a half hammers cost, meaning they cost more metal to make for all systems, but produce in 1/2 the time.

Upon checking, the incorrect power consumption seems to be a function of the weapon mount issue as well.

eric
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:13 pm

Re: Siege weapons are still broken

Postby eric » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:07 pm

Chasm wrote:This is actually related to the weapon type mismatch.

Dreadstars use:

Hardpoint 'MaskedBeamMounts' {
part_id={12,13},
mtype = "SuperHeavy",
},

vs

{mtype="Siege", n=5, mlocation=1,space=30},

for all other siege weapon users (Super Dreadnought, Orthin Dreadnought, Orthin gunship).
I have a feeling that perhaps dreadstars are only supposed to have 2 siege weapons, but only the devs can say that for sure. Since no quantity is listed per mount, I am fairly certain it is supposed to be 1 per.
The metal difference is due to the fact that dreadstars have a double metal cost, while they have a half hammers cost, meaning they cost more metal to make for all systems, but produce in 1/2 the time.


Yeah, I’ve noticed that the dread star and all its systems are twice as expensive as they should be.
I think this makes them completely useless, as metal are significantly more precious then labour, and 2 + 0.5 is greater then 1 + 1.
At late game, a planet with 10 factory can produce 400 labour and use 450 metal each turn (nearly 2000 when building dread star), while a planet with 10 mines can only produce about 120 metal (240 on mineral rich worlds). Therefore one point of metal is 3-4 times as precious as one point labour, as the production rate of mine is only 1/4 to 1/3 as high as those of labour, and for each ship construction planet, it takes 3-4 mining planet to support it.
Assume that each dread star cost 5000 labour and 18000 metal, then its original cost is 10000 labour and 9000 metal. Assume one point of metal is as precious as three points of labour, then the current cost of dread star is 59000 labour, and it’s original cost is 37000 labour. Having doubled metal cost and halved labour cost means a total cost increase of more then 60%.
Therefore, the cost efficiency of dread star is ridiculously low, especially considering the fact that it needs one of the most advanced and expensive research in the game. I see no point in researching dread star, as other late game technology like race mind and star gate are just so useful. If the dread star is going to be as useful as other late game technology, it need doubled firepower and toughness.
Last edited by eric on Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

eric
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:13 pm

Re: Siege weapons are still broken

Postby eric » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:08 pm

Chasm wrote:This is actually related to the weapon type mismatch.

Dreadstars use:

Hardpoint 'MaskedBeamMounts' {
part_id={12,13},
mtype = "SuperHeavy",
},

vs

{mtype="Siege", n=5, mlocation=1,space=30},

for all other siege weapon users (Super Dreadnought, Orthin Dreadnought, Orthin gunship).
I have a feeling that perhaps dreadstars are only supposed to have 2 siege weapons, but only the devs can say that for sure. Since no quantity is listed per mount, I am fairly certain it is supposed to be 1 per.
The metal difference is due to the fact that dreadstars have a double metal cost, while they have a half hammers cost, meaning they cost more metal to make for all systems, but produce in 1/2 the time.

Upon checking, the incorrect power consumption seems to be a function of the weapon mount issue as well.


Also, thanks for your technical explanation. Aroich told me it was true that the dread star is only supposed to have 2 siege weapon, but I thought he got it wrong as the price and energy cost of siege weapons are broken, and in that case the dread star is seriously underpowered.


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