Tinkers as a mayor faction

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Wyvern
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Re: Tinkers as a mayor faction

Postby Wyvern » Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:50 pm

Arioch wrote:We'd eventually like to do faction-custom versions of all of the bases, but that's obviously a big job. What's more likely in the near future is a set of better recolors of the existing versions.
...Huh. Now that you point it out, yeah, the current bases are pretty clearly Ashdar designs. That explains their armament, too; of -course- the Ashdar would put fighter bays on their bases rather than heavy or siege weapon mounts. Alright. Carry on, then.

zolobolo
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Re: Tinkers as a mayor faction

Postby zolobolo » Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:17 pm

Arioch wrote:
zolobolo wrote:Still do not see the fighter bomber drone concept clearly, but I am sure you guys will figure it out

tinkers_weapons2.jpg


The Tinkers bases move, so they are oriented more like ships than bases. The generic versions of the asteroid bases (which do not move) will be oriented more like regular bases.

Image

Makes sense, and the Asteroid Bases look great especially the Mining Base (guess then these will add a considerable metal production in exchange for a star base slot and only at selected locations possible :))

Or: the player can chose what type of asteroid base they wish to build concentrating on either mining or defense (outpost). In the last option it needs to be a viable alternative to Starbases and fortresses, or they need to exist in a special slot not limiting construction of standard bases (like stargates do)

Also: I see you are planning base for pirates as well? :)

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Arioch
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Re: Tinkers as a mayor faction

Postby Arioch » Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:47 pm

Here's a look at the completed missile cruiser.
tinkers_missile_cruiser3_export2.jpg
tinkers_missile_cruiser3_export2.jpg (86.6 KiB) Viewed 6108 times


zolobolo wrote:Also: I see you are planning base for pirates as well? :)

The pirate version of the large asteroid base is already in the game, but I don't think it's being used. If we have time, I'd very much like to revamp how the pirates are set up.

zolobolo
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Re: Tinkers as a mayor faction

Postby zolobolo » Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:56 pm

Arioch wrote:Here's a look at the completed missile cruiser.
tinkers_missile_cruiser3_export2.jpg



Looking good, I really like the design :) See that the concept has almost been transitioned 1:1. Like the details.

If I may comment: The existing ships have a common attribute of feeling "worn" meaning: mostly paint-job is rubbed of in a couple of random places even for other ships then Human. If the Tinkers are a pristine perfectionist race, it makes sense for their ships to be always shiny and looking like new but otherwise I would give them a rouged touch as well so they feel realistic like the others do if this makes any sense

Arioch wrote:
zolobolo wrote:Also: I see you are planning base for pirates as well? :)

The pirate version of the large asteroid base is already in the game, but I don't think it's being used. If we have time, I'd very much like to revamp how the pirates are set up.


Haven't seen pirate bases so far though I have to say I have never set Pirate raids to high yet... probably has nothing to do with that though as this seems like something that would be generated at the start of the game

Also looks exactly like the Marauder base (minus the pirate symbols), didn't you mean those as those are definitively in use :)?

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Arioch
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Re: Tinkers as a mayor faction

Postby Arioch » Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:32 pm

zolobolo wrote: Also looks exactly like the Marauder base (minus the pirate symbols), didn't you mean those as those are definitively in use :)?

There are both pirate and Marauder versions of the same base. I don't think the pirate version is in use at present.

pirate_asteroid_base3.jpg
pirate_asteroid_base3.jpg (135.42 KiB) Viewed 6101 times

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SmaugTheDragon
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Re: Tinkers as a mayor faction

Postby SmaugTheDragon » Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:50 am

"Go Away" is a nice touch.

That missile cruiser design looks very odd to me, the overall style idea of Tinker ships is interesting but seems a little busy to my eyes.

Are we ever getting race specific orbital station designs?

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Arioch
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Re: Tinkers as a mayor faction

Postby Arioch » Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:54 am

SmaugTheDragon wrote:Are we ever getting race specific orbital station designs?

As I said above, I'd very much like to, and I think we will get to it eventually. But it's a big job; 15 large station assets is more work than an entire new faction's worth of ships.

zolobolo
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Re: Tinkers as a mayor faction

Postby zolobolo » Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:52 am

Arioch wrote:
SmaugTheDragon wrote:Are we ever getting race specific orbital station designs?

As I said above, I'd very much like to, and I think we will get to it eventually. But it's a big job; 15 large station assets is more work than an entire new faction's worth of ships.


If I could chose I would take the new faction :) Of course there is also more to a faction: pop, mechanics tech etc so yeah

The solution you have mentioned regarding faction-specific paint-job and logo should do the trick
Last edited by zolobolo on Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

wminsing
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Re: Tinkers as a mayor faction

Postby wminsing » Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:10 pm

That makes sense with the Tinker bases be orientated like ships. The 'generic' bases are looking great!

For the pirates I agree a revamp might make sense. Odd how they have survived on their own in just their ships for so long.... Having bases scattered about (maybe unlike the Gremak Raiders the Pirates are usually found around non-hospitable worlds) would make a lot of sense. I also have not seen a 'pirate fleet gathering' event in a long time. Those still int game.

-Will

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Arioch
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Re: Tinkers as a mayor faction

Postby Arioch » Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:30 pm

wminsing wrote: I also have not seen a 'pirate fleet gathering' event in a long time. Those still int game.

Yep, they're still in the game; I saw some just a few days ago.

zolobolo
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Re: Tinkers as a mayor faction

Postby zolobolo » Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:45 am

Arioch wrote:
wminsing wrote: I also have not seen a 'pirate fleet gathering' event in a long time. Those still int game.

Yep, they're still in the game; I saw some just a few days ago.

Confirm here as well, though I usually try to get rid of them that is why I always notice when they are around :)

zolobolo
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Re: Tinkers as a mayor faction

Postby zolobolo » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:12 pm

So, since all factions approach the tech-tree differently and usually having some endgame tech, speculating on what the Tinkers might have...

Autorepair systems seems like a logical starting tech for them as it is basically their basic healthcare :) If they have manged to place themselves into robotic bodies I am sure they can also repair these quite effectively, thus all of their ships could thus have repair capability from the start. Now the art of that specific tech does not seem to match their style but that is another question.

Since they produce tech more slowly at least in the early game, they can still have fighting chance with lower tech as their ships regenerate during combat (does repair show up as a huge +X HP in the beginning of the battle? if not it should :))

EMP missiles: being robotic in nature this would be their basic way of fighting between each other

Faction specific infantry: they could have "Combat Droids" either replacing the default tank battalions, or supplementing them by being a decent fighting force but having corresponding upkeep and production costs to make both ground troop types valid options

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Arioch
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Re: Tinkers as a mayor faction

Postby Arioch » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:24 pm

zolobolo wrote: Autorepair systems seems like a logical starting tech for them as it is basically their basic healthcare :) If they have manged to place themselves into robotic bodies I am sure they can also repair these quite effectively, thus all of their ships could thus have repair capability from the start. Now the art of that specific tech does not seem to match their style but that is another question.

Yes, the Tinkers start with a lower-level autorepair system, which is built into every military hull.

zolobolo wrote: EMP missiles: being robotic in nature this would be their basic way of fighting between each other

Tinkers don't normally fight each other -- the cyborg Harmonization process is effectively a form of "nerve stapling"; Tinkers and other Harmonized cyborgs aren't affected by morale. But I do think it could make sense for EMP weapons to have special effects against cyborgs.

zolobolo
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Re: Tinkers as a mayor faction

Postby zolobolo » Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:57 am

Arioch wrote:Yes, the Tinkers start with a lower-level autorepair system, which is built into every military hull.

Ok, hard targets then, this should offset their early tech disadvantage just fine

Arioch wrote:
zolobolo wrote: EMP missiles: being robotic in nature this would be their basic way of fighting between each other

Tinkers don't normally fight each other -- the cyborg Harmonization process is effectively a form of "nerve stapling"; Tinkers and other Harmonized cyborgs aren't affected by morale. But I do think it could make sense for EMP weapons to have special effects against cyborgs.

Dammit I forgot just how evil these critter really are :)
So how about this as special effect: Since Tinkers get a disadvantage early game and can be considered to be the first "defensive" style faction, they could get really OP late game. So EMP could have not only a disabling effect on their weapons but also kill of their crew! The problem with this is that AI needs to be made fit for countering late-game Tinker ships with EMP and they generally avoid this weapon type though this might be due to not pursuing boarding tactics.

Something more easy to implement would be a pre-EMP tech (analog to Gremak Launcher and above mentioned pre-auto-repair). It would be a less powerful EMP warhead, that the Tinkes can use though extensively (via their drones for example). This, combined with the repair ability could easily make them OP early game, so you can give them another substation drawback like: high upkeep or production costs

So it would look like this:
- low pop reproduction rate
- low science production
- low income
- ships cost more

+ do not need food (or minimal amount)
+ is not affected by morale
+ ships are tough right from the start
+ can disable enemy ships early on

Thus they would have few ships, but those are very powerful right from the start (The Borg come to my mind now that I think about it)
Alternatively: They could get reverse-engineering and integration into fleet tech right from the start instead (as they like to tinker with other peoples tech ;))

Ashbery76
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Re: Tinkers as a mayor faction

Postby Ashbery76 » Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:32 pm

What happens if you glass,conquer Dzibix?


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