Tinkers as a mayor faction

General Stars in Shadow Discussion Forum
zolobolo
Posts: 1349
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:49 pm

Tinkers as a mayor faction

Postby zolobolo » Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:39 pm

I really like the news of a DLC for this game and the Tinkers are by far my favourite minor race which is mostly due to their standout art but may also have something to do with the fact that they are very useful war assets with high manufacturing value and no moral

That being said I think there is enough room for new races so that there is a good verity of minor and mayor factions. The combination of production values and special traits enables the creation of many new races.

But if a minor race needs to be made a mayor faction, I am glad the Tinkers are the ones who get the treatment :)

Suggestion: The announcement lore already hints towards the possibility of bumping into some of their colonisation attempts: recommend that these should not be colonies, but rather a unique type of vessel that carries tinkers (a mobile base if you will). Now using the base even after it has been occupied might be too much work if it is considered as a ship so either:
1. Dissolve the ship upon occupation and assign the player the resources it contained (moving the pop right to a planet would be tricky though)
2. Handle the "Colony ship/base" as a sort of planet in the system view. It can only support a small number of districts, only has one biome and is only ideal for Tinkers, but for them it is optimal, and when it is attacked it can defend itself better then normal planets would (more defines hard points)

Also: in accordance with the lore, the Tinkers should have the lowest science and minimal to no food production so their high manufacturing output is balanced out

User avatar
Arioch
Posts: 1325
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:56 am
Location: San Jose, California
Contact:

Re: Tinkers as a mayor faction

Postby Arioch » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:00 am

I think most of the pre-FTL Tinker colonies will have failed, leaving either a small population of refugees or an abandoned asteroid outpost (which could, presumably, be reclaimed by the Tinker player). But I think there should be a few functioning splinter colonies, similar to the Human or Ashdar versions currently found in the game. We plan to add functionality for space habitats and asteroid bases, so there will be more fun stuff you can do with orbital infrastructure.

We're excited about the new mechanics introduced for the Tinkers and the other contents of the DLC.

zolobolo
Posts: 1349
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:49 pm

Re: Tinkers as a mayor faction

Postby zolobolo » Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:58 pm

Arioch wrote:I think most of the pre-FTL Tinker colonies will have failed, leaving either a small population of refugees or an abandoned asteroid outpost (which could, presumably, be reclaimed by the Tinker player). But I think there should be a few functioning splinter colonies, similar to the Human or Ashdar versions currently found in the game. We plan to add functionality for space habitats and asteroid bases, so there will be more fun stuff you can do with orbital infrastructure.

We're excited about the new mechanics introduced for the Tinkers and the other contents of the DLC.


Asteroid Outpost sound like an awesome idea. We already met these structures in case of Marauders, but they would also make sense to be utilised as Tinker colony remainders. You could use modular structural snippets of images for the main outpost image to personalise the existing outpost to that of the new race and other mayor races if they build such a structure

Not a fan of traditional colonies for the new race as it is too similar to what we already got for existing races (already got two factions for this like you mentioned). If you would like the new race to make a unique impression they should do their own thing ;)

Doing more things with orbital infrastructure is a neat idea, just make sure not to overload this aspect with micromanagement since that would be a pain to do for each system/planet/base. Maybe make asteroid outpost super expensive and only buildable in asteroid belts (duh). Asteroid belts should be a property of planets and made clearly visible. On the plus side, they can provide pop bonus and more effective defences then regular starbases. They could function in this regard like advanced starbases (all the benefits plus a few extras)

Exited to hear more about your plans :)
Pls prioratize difficulty as a side (galaxy with not corners, AI, Marauders and pirates rebalance, such things)

mharmless
Posts: 235
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:11 pm
Location: Washington State

Re: Tinkers as a mayor faction

Postby mharmless » Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:37 pm

Arioch wrote:We're excited about the new mechanics introduced for the Tinkers and the other contents of the DLC.


I was excited to see the announcement and I look forward to hearing more!

User avatar
SirDamnALot
Posts: 228
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:10 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Tinkers as a mayor faction

Postby SirDamnALot » Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:39 am

With the Tinkers I can pickup again my silly idea about a Battlestar Galactica scenario :mrgreen: (Humans+Tinkers only, small galaxy)

wminsing
Posts: 132
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:51 am

Re: Tinkers as a mayor faction

Postby wminsing » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:36 pm

What I really want to know is will Tinkers be able to 'upgrade' other species to be cyborgs as well? I can see the Tinkers thinking 'man, those other species, they need to EAT and produce WASTE and it's all so inconvenient and stuff we should just upgrade them to Teros 2.0....'

-Will

User avatar
Arioch
Posts: 1325
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:56 am
Location: San Jose, California
Contact:

Re: Tinkers as a mayor faction

Postby Arioch » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:36 am

wminsing wrote:What I really want to know is will Tinkers be able to 'upgrade' other species to be cyborgs as well?

Yes, Tinkers can "harmonize" alien population, in a similar process to enslavement.

zolobolo
Posts: 1349
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:49 pm

Re: Tinkers as a mayor faction

Postby zolobolo » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:45 pm

Arioch wrote:
wminsing wrote:What I really want to know is will Tinkers be able to 'upgrade' other species to be cyborgs as well?

Yes, Tinkers can "harmonize" alien population, in a similar process to enslavement.

This sound intreaguing, but what if the planet is captured by a non-machine special afterwards? These "harmonised" species will not turn back right?

Also: this process sound really evil for these cute machines :) Maybe call i augmentation which enhances their senses and intellect making them more productive in work and science but reproduce slower?

Also: Did you consider making a faction unique small craft tech? Tinkers might be ideal for this as they would fundamentally approach combat differently. Some examples:
- They only have two small craft available which are both basically drones: they are more numerous (delivering bigger punch) as conventional interceptors and bombers but have weaker hull. they would not be replaced by a third tier Striker Fighter
- Using EMP rockets as default weapon (starting tech for them) - since they are machines, for them the most effective weapon would be EMP.
- They would have excellent boarding parties (as they do not need oxygen), and their gunships would resemble rocker propelled drills :)

Though generally it is best to be careful with faction specific tactics as the AI needs to tackle these: haven't yet seen Phidi or other factions use mercs for example or the humies assault marines or the Gremak Raiders :)

User avatar
Arioch
Posts: 1325
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:56 am
Location: San Jose, California
Contact:

Re: Tinkers as a mayor faction

Postby Arioch » Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:54 am

zolobolo wrote:
Arioch wrote:
wminsing wrote:What I really want to know is will Tinkers be able to 'upgrade' other species to be cyborgs as well?

Yes, Tinkers can "harmonize" alien population, in a similar process to enslavement.

This sound intreaguing, but what if the planet is captured by a non-machine special afterwards? These "harmonised" species will not turn back right?

Cyborgs can be de-harmonized with the appropriate technology, similar to how slaves can be liberated. However, this will make them susceptible again to morale effects, so use caution. Tinkers cannot be de-harmonized.

zolobolo wrote:Also: this process sound really evil for these cute machines :) Maybe call i augmentation which enhances their senses and intellect making them more productive in work and science but reproduce slower?

But they're harmonious! It doesn't get any cuter than that! :D

As with the Gremak slavery mechanic, harmonizing aliens is optional. You can play the Tinkers as benevolent or diabolical as you please.

zolobolo wrote:Also: Did you consider making a faction unique small craft tech? Tinkers might be ideal for this as they would fundamentally approach combat differently.

Yes. The Tinkers have drone interceptors and bombers which can be launched from torpedo tubes in addition to hangar bays. The bomber drone is essentially a smart multi-warhead torpedo. The strike fighter is a more conventional manned craft.

zolobolo
Posts: 1349
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:49 pm

Re: Tinkers as a mayor faction

Postby zolobolo » Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:38 am

Arioch wrote:Cyborgs can be de-harmonized with the appropriate technology, similar to how slaves can be liberated. However, this will make them susceptible again to morale effects, so use caution. Tinkers cannot be de-harmonized.

Love it

Arioch wrote:As with the Gremak slavery mechanic, harmonizing aliens is optional. You can play the Tinkers as benevolent or diabolical as you please.

Love it.

One question though: Will it affect anything else besides being immune to moral effect? It would seem to me that both logically and game-play wise it should effect production of the 4 categories increasing some and decreasing others in order to not have "harmonization" as the clearly superior option in all circumstances (except when role-playing as a benevolent machine ruler which will probably never happen :))

Also: make sure to think about the situation where one can enslave the faction which has been harmonized before. The two functions could cancel each other out or even form a synergy of sorts but the scenario will happen once Gremak start taking planets from Tinkers

Arioch wrote:
zolobolo wrote:Also: Did you consider making a faction unique small craft tech? Tinkers might be ideal for this as they would fundamentally approach combat differently.

Yes. The Tinkers have drone interceptors and bombers which can be launched from torpedo tubes in addition to hangar bays. The bomber drone is essentially a smart multi-warhead torpedo. The strike fighter is a more conventional manned craft.

LOVE it! Can hardly wait to see the art for this!

When is this thing out? :)
Last edited by zolobolo on Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:12 am, edited 2 times in total.

zolobolo
Posts: 1349
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:49 pm

Re: Tinkers as a mayor faction

Postby zolobolo » Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:10 am

Also took a look gain at the concept art: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=535

There is a comment of small craft above some missile/torpedo looking objects - these look great as ordnance but a drone should be more menacing and they currently look like singe-shot concordance and nut multi-headed

Regarding bases though I noticed another thing: Asteroid base, outpost and even colony ships are shown from their side and not top-down like all the other existing bases and ships. This could work really well in case of bases should you plan to make them rotate constantly as they do not have weapon mounts to worry about during the animation but note: all the other races use the same art for outpost, shipyard and the two star bases (Ashdar logo is also still on most of them :)).

So are the Tinkers the only ones who are going to get their own base arts, or are these for those stranded colonization attempts mentioned in the lore?

User avatar
Arioch
Posts: 1325
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:56 am
Location: San Jose, California
Contact:

Re: Tinkers as a mayor faction

Postby Arioch » Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:25 pm

zolobolo wrote:One question though: Will it affect anything else besides being immune to moral effect? It would seem to me that both logically and game-play wise it should effect production of the 4 categories increasing some and decreasing others in order to not have "harmonization" as the clearly superior option in all circumstances (except when role-playing as a benevolent machine ruler which will probably never happen :))

Yes, cyborg population will have different stats than the normal population. We also plan to add some positive effects for high morale, which cyborgs will be unable to benefit from.

Also: make sure to think about the situation where one can enslave the faction which has been harmonized before. The two functions could cancel each other out or even form a synergy of sorts but the scenario will happen once Gremak start taking planets from Tinkers

zolobolo wrote:There is a comment of small craft above some missile/torpedo looking objects - these look great as ordnance but a drone should be more menacing and they currently look like singe-shot concordance and nut multi-headed

Here is a more recent concept:
Image

zolobolo wrote:Regarding bases though I noticed another thing: Asteroid base, outpost and even colony ships are shown from their side and not top-down like all the other existing bases and ships. This could work really well in case of bases should you plan to make them rotate constantly as they do not have weapon mounts to worry about during the animation but note: all the other races use the same art for outpost, shipyard and the two star bases (Ashdar logo is also still on most of them :)).

We're adding the ability to build asteroid bases at planets which have a debris ring; these are less expensive (especially in terms of metal) than the equivalent normal bases and have built-in extra armor. The Tinkers mobile bases are unique in that they can be moved and re-deployed right from the start, so they have special graphics.

We'd eventually like to do faction-custom versions of all of the bases, but that's obviously a big job. What's more likely in the near future is a set of better recolors of the existing versions.

wminsing
Posts: 132
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:51 am

Re: Tinkers as a mayor faction

Postby wminsing » Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:05 pm

Yes, Tinkers can "harmonize" alien population, in a similar process to enslavement.


Holy cats that sounds amazing.

-Will

zolobolo
Posts: 1349
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:49 pm

Re: Tinkers as a mayor faction

Postby zolobolo » Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:07 pm

Arioch wrote:Here is a more recent concept:

I see you re going in Cardassian ship design direction with the missile cruiser, not bad :)

Still do not see the fighter bomber drone concept clearly, but I am sure you guys will figure it out, all the rest match the style of the factions perfectly and look also cool on their own, I really can't think of any of the existing craft that are not sleek and stylish
Edit: Just googles sci-fi drone and found an image that already fit your Tinker style and the theme perfectly:
https://www.google.ch/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiMlru5x5jVAhUDCBoKHcIRCqEQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpolycount.com%2Fdiscussion%2F144081%2Fscifi-drone&psig=AFQjCNHVJODzHNlGSMN7v1_72Cs7DkLdng&ust=1500664060001213

My point on the base perspective still stands: Designs that belong to "mobile" bases are fine from the side as you can rotate those and give the feeling as if we were looking down on them (like in all other images), and it is just for the citizens within, that down is not in the same direction

If it is a stationary base such as the asteroid base concept I find it a bit strange at least at first. We have already seen bases built into asteroids: the Marauder bases. And even those we are looking from the top down. Maybe it is just me though...

Arioch wrote:We're adding the ability to build asteroid bases at planets which have a debris ring; these are less expensive (especially in terms of metal) than the equivalent normal bases and have built-in extra armor. The Tinkers mobile bases are unique in that they can be moved and re-deployed right from the start, so they have special graphics.

Sound like a cool concept, hope they will get their own benefit supplied so they feel unique

e.g.: Asteroid bases could server as a kind of cultural hub generating influence with their addons
Or they can simply server as extra tough defenses able to hold a bunch of small craft squadrons, all sorts of weapon mounts + boost a huge armor

Arioch wrote:We'd eventually like to do faction-custom versions of all of the bases, but that's obviously a big job. What's more likely in the near future is a set of better recolors of the existing versions.

This is a neat idea. Changing the colors and making the current Ashdar logo dynamic (swapped out for the current faction logo) would already go a long way :)

User avatar
Arioch
Posts: 1325
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:56 am
Location: San Jose, California
Contact:

Re: Tinkers as a mayor faction

Postby Arioch » Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:25 pm

zolobolo wrote:Still do not see the fighter bomber drone concept clearly, but I am sure you guys will figure it out

tinkers_weapons2.jpg
tinkers_weapons2.jpg (83.51 KiB) Viewed 9573 times


The Tinkers bases move, so they are oriented more like ships than bases. The generic versions of the asteroid bases (which do not move) will be oriented more like regular bases.

Image


Return to “General Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests