Ground combat?

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enpi
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Ground combat?

Postby enpi » Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:16 pm

I would like to ask if sis will have a ground combat system? (an abstract and simple one like MOO2 for example)

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Arioch
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Re: Ground combat?

Postby Arioch » Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:08 pm

The current ground combat system is very simple. Once you have defeated a planet's defenses, you have two options to directly attack the planet itself. First, you can bombard the population with your military vessels, killing them one unit at a time. If you kill all the population, the colony will be destroyed. Currently, bombardment does not destroy infrastructure, only population.

Second, if your fleet includes Troop Transports (or any ship equipped with Planetary Assault Forces), you can invade and capture the population. Each Planetary Assault Force unit can subdue 1 unit of population; you must have enough shuttles to subdue the entire population to be able to invade. If the enemy planet has more population than you have invading shuttles, you can destroy the surplus population one unit at a time with bombardment, and then invade and capture the rest.

We would like to be able to expand on this system if we have time to do so.

rattle
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Re: Ground combat?

Postby rattle » Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:20 pm

So it's kind of like Master of Orion 1.

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Arioch
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Re: Ground combat?

Postby Arioch » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:54 am

Not even that complicated; it's just a simple numbers game... if you have as many troops as the enemy planet has population, you automatically win. There aren't any defensive armies. If I recall, in both MOO1 and MOO2 you had a randomized clash between ground forces, affected by numbers of troops and the ground combat techs they'd researched, and the troops would actually line up and knock each other off. I'd like to eventually have something like that, with various combat sprites for the different races and technological states (along the lines of the population icons), and with the ability to have defensive armies and some impact from and to the infrastructure on the planet and the planet's environment. Still simple, but a little bit more visual, and with a little more dice-rolling.

I think in MOO2 you built specific ground units. In MOO1, did you just convert population into troops? I don't recall.

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Can you believe this is the actual resolution of a MOO1 screen (320x200)? Insane, huh?

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Re: Ground combat?

Postby enpi » Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:33 am

sounds good. I hope you will add some more defense options (like building defense bases and defending ground troopers) and attack options (different attack troop types)

In a grand strategy like SiS I dont like to have detailed ground combat movement (at least not if it is not excellently implemented) but only simple abstract mechanics - like those you described. OTOh, there should be at least some basic options.

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Arioch
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Re: Ground combat?

Postby Arioch » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:21 pm

We do have defense bases, but they're currently only useful against attacking starships (an invading force has to destroy them before the troops can land).

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Re: Ground combat?

Postby rattle » Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:10 pm

MoO2 had Power Suits, Armors and Battleoids which increased hitpoints and rating

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enpi
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Re: Ground combat?

Postby enpi » Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:33 pm

rattle wrote:MoO2 had Power Suits, Armors and Battleoids which increased hitpoints and rating

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yep. It was a simple but good ground combat system system. Eg. it was important decision to update your ground troop tech constantly, if you prefered to capture planets instead of just bombing them.

Ashbery76
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Re: Ground combat?

Postby Ashbery76 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:37 pm

rattle wrote:MoO2 had Power Suits, Armors and Battleoids which increased hitpoints and rating

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Image



Indeed and while the combat was abstracted it felt much more immersive than the GC2 style troop ships.It would be a shame to copy that bland system.

halftea
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Re: Ground combat?

Postby halftea » Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:42 am

Arioch wrote:Currently, bombardment does not destroy infrastructure, only population.


So are there any mechanics to simulate retooling this captured infrastructure? Like reduced industrial output of a certain percent that gradually declines until everything is up to spec?

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Re: Ground combat?

Postby Arioch » Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:17 am

halftea wrote:
Arioch wrote:Currently, bombardment does not destroy infrastructure, only population.


So are there any mechanics to simulate retooling this captured infrastructure? Like reduced industrial output of a certain percent that gradually declines until everything is up to spec?

Not at present. I would think it more likely that there will eventually just be a chance for buildings to be destroyed during bombardment or invasion, and they will have to be rebuilt.

Hakon
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Re: Ground combat?

Postby Hakon » Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:42 am

Arioch wrote:
halftea wrote:
Arioch wrote:Currently, bombardment does not destroy infrastructure, only population.


So are there any mechanics to simulate retooling this captured infrastructure? Like reduced industrial output of a certain percent that gradually declines until everything is up to spec?

Not at present. I would think it more likely that there will eventually just be a chance for buildings to be destroyed during bombardment or invasion, and they will have to be rebuilt.

Is there any differentiation in population based on dynamics? IE, would a conquered population cause issues that a population of your own races colonials would not? and is there a difference between native population and general population? I notice there's minor races in some of the screenshots regarding planetary population numbers (the one showing the Gremal planet from beta).

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Re: Ground combat?

Postby Arioch » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:05 am

Hakon wrote:Is there any differentiation in population based on dynamics? IE, would a conquered population cause issues that a population of your own races colonials would not? and is there a difference between native population and general population? I notice there's minor races in some of the screenshots regarding planetary population numbers (the one showing the Gremal planet from beta).

The population for each race (major and minor) is distinct. Currently, aside from the visual, each different population is distinct only in its production bonuses (some races are better at certain activities than others) and its habitat preferences (which manifests itself in the rate of population growth and the population cap for that population type, based on availability of preferred habitats on a particular planet). So some races' population will grow faster or slower depending on what kind of world you put them on, some races can't survive in certain habitats at all (without appropriate technology, at least), and some races can take advantage of habitats that are not utilized by other races. For example, if you are Human and have an Earthlike "Garden" world, you can increase the maximum population cap by moving in population of an aquatic race like the Phidi or Orthin, as they can make better use of the ocean habit than the Humans can.

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We intend to add more functionality to this system; in particular, we want to add a population morale system, so that we can have conditions that make a certain population happy or unhappy (such as being conquered, being at war with their native nation, having to live in unfavorable habitats, having to live on the same planet as a hated race, etc.), and have bonuses or penalties based on their morale (such as productivity bonuses or penalties, or possibly even civil disorder or revolt if unhappiness is allow to grow unchecked).

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Re: Ground combat?

Postby sabretooth » Tue Jun 09, 2015 4:12 pm

i think having ground combat with little sprites to illustrate the battle as seen in MoO2 was and still is my preferred ground combat. something about seeing your little troops dooking it out with noticable difference in weapons and armour is awesome! i just wished that MoO3 had expanded on the MoO2 ground combat with still using the sprites (love that art style combat ;3) but expanding the available defensive/offensive options and showing us them, for example, if u chose attrition, u could see ur sprites occupying trenches against which ever option the ai chose.

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Re: Ground combat?

Postby enpi » Tue Jun 09, 2015 4:51 pm

sabretooth wrote:i think having ground combat with little sprites to illustrate the battle as seen in MoO2 was and still is my preferred ground combat. something about seeing your little troops dooking it out with noticable difference in weapons and armour is awesome! i just wished that MoO3 had expanded on the MoO2 ground combat with still using the sprites (love that art style combat ;3) but expanding the available defensive/offensive options and showing us them, for example, if u chose attrition, u could see ur sprites occupying trenches against which ever option the ai chose.



I absolutely agree and I think your idea about graphical depiction of invasion options is great.

I could even imagine a system where normal planets are taken in one turn but heavily defended planets can hold out several turns where the attacker would be able to bring on more troopships between the turns and the planet owner could produce a limited amount of marines or tanks or bunkers (maybe when the planet has a special defense building like an army barracks which allows this) between the turns. That would of course mean a much deeper system but when well implemented could be also very rewarding for the more strategic minded players among us.


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