Orthin and torpedoes

[sven]

any, what am I trying to say ... hardpoints, in my view, are little bit too limiting, if we can add them (or remove/change) it will open up more design options

one of the ideas that has been floating around for a while now is that some techs might add additional hardpoints to certain hulls. but upgrading certain hardpoints (particularly mediums to heavies), is also the kind of thing we could, theoretically, do with a tech unlock. um, it's not a mod i'd suggest trying yourself unless you're quite fluent with lua though -- hacking this capability into the current datastructures would be a delicate job.

player-modifiable hardpoint types is an even harder one -- as that would really require rethinking big chunks of the ship designer UI

another -- possibly confusing change we could imagine would be to expand the types of weapons that a player can put in a certain hardpoint type with a tech unlock -- so, for example, unlock the ability to put torpedoes in heavy mounts. or, similarly, gate the current ability to put missiles in medium mounts behind a tech unlock. i don't think i like this one: it would probably just confuse players. but, techs with that kind of side-effect are certainly *possible*.

[zolobolo]

Do not recommend going down the path of modifying hardpoint type or mountable weapons: ignoring the progaramming implications it would open up a whole can of issues with visual representation (where heavy and medium mounted weapons are visible) plus how the AI would handle such sitations (not the best when it comes to refitting ships) - could easily lead to a player explusive upgrade

[siyoa]

um, it's not a mod i'd suggest trying yourself unless you're quite fluent with lua though -- hacking this capability into the current datastructures would be a delicate job.

yeah, if nothing else, the time I would need to properly do it goes beyond what my schedule allows ... and I rather not mention my lua skill set

player-modifiable hardpoint types is an even harder one -- as that would really require rethinking big chunks of the ship designer UI

it would all come down how far you want to go ... I was more into changing the hardpoint to have higher multiplier, i.e. system[10] upgraded to system[20] ... so, for example shields would be double in that slot ... I have my way around it, I added bunch of miniaturization technologies and I use num_mult to do that, or I have mk.2 very late game tech for aegis that has higher space_mult ... it just would be much easier if I can do hardpoint upgrades ... it would give more option haw to approach this

another -- possibly confusing change we could imagine would be to expand the types of weapons that a player can put in a certain hardpoint type with a tech unlock -- so, for example, unlock the ability to put torpedoes in heavy mounts. or, similarly, gate the current ability to put missiles in medium mounts behind a tech unlock. i don't think i like this one: it would probably just confuse players. but, techs with that kind of side-effect are certainly *possible*.

something like this ... I can hard code for torpedoes to fit heavy slots, but then any race can use it right from turn 1 ... or, if there is code for it, I can put it together (for orthin, for example), that when they somehow reverse engineer torpedo tech, they can research ability to put torpedoes to heavy slots

also, I just reverse engineered tinker's forge ... it would be so nice to be able to research option to have it built-in the same way tinker's have it ... I mean I can go and edit each of my ship designs manually and make sure to delete it, when I am done playing this race ... and it is function over form ... but it would be so nice if there is provision in the code to allow adding/modifying hardpoints and then we can mod it as we want ... yes it can give some broken options if modder is not carefull ...

there is other stuff that can be built-in and hidden under unlockable tech, marine quarters, extra munition, lane amplifiers ... I know that can lead to overpowered ships, and the way it is now, you control how many systems/weapons you can put into ship ... but having all these options there for modding would be so great

[siyoa]

Do not recommend going down the path of modifying hardpoint type or mountable weapons: ignoring the progaramming implications it would open up a whole can of issues with visual representation (where heavy and medium mounted weapons are visible) plus how the AI would handle such sitations (not the best when it comes to refitting ships) - could easily lead to a player explusive upgrade

yeah, visual representation can be bummer, there are ways around it ... I had my ships quite modified when I played last winter ... the AI, yeah, they may not always take an advantage of the mods ...

[Pherdnut]

So I have to ask, why has there been so much fuss over torpedoes. I liked the balance all the way back in the pre-release game where simply being slow and having half-ammo justified torps doing double-damage and you could place them anywhere you could place a missile. Like, yeah, torps are nasty but they have to get there and they have half-ammo. Counter-fleets of small ships with PD will make a joke out of them if they don't come with fleet balance of their own.

[Pherdnut]

Also, everybody should be able to launch torps from a planet, even if they have no other platform. But why make that hard?

[Arioch]

The reason why we removed torpedoes from factions that didn't have the proper ship hardpoints from them was that we had reports from players who researched torpedoes and were frustrated that they couldn't find any way to equip them. The simplest way to deal with this was just to remove the tech.

There are ways to fix the issue (such as allowing heavy fixed mounts to carry a half-load of torpedoes; we already have the graphical assets to make this work), and we may revisit this in the future, but I don't think it's a compelling problem at the moment. Not every faction needs to be able to equip every weapon.

[Pherdnut]

My recommendation would be to simplify. All you need is light, medium, heavy, siege and fixed/turret mounts. Missile/torps are already balanced on ammo and speed-to-target or can be if they aren't. Why worry about missile/torpedo/launcher/slots?

[Arioch]

My recommendation would be to simplify. All you need is light, medium, heavy, siege and fixed/turret mounts. Missile/torps are already balanced on ammo and speed-to-target or can be if they aren't. Why worry about missile/torpedo/launcher/slots?

Because there are hulls specifically designed for them. The missile-dedicated slots on certain Gremak, Ashdar, Yoral and Human hulls can't mount regular direct-fire weapons; it doesn't work graphically or make sense thematically.

[siyoa]

it seems I am getting to the point, I am able to start adding slots to ships through technology advancements ... in this example, middle/late game tech should give additional built-in engine slot for better maneuverability and/or tactical speed

this is just a proof of concept for now

[siyoa]

I guess, I should do some sanitizing, asteroid station should not be able to move around