zolobolo wrote:- Did not attack the AI to see how far they can/will build up when left to develop - otherwise the game would have been over at around turn 100
sven wrote:This is an interesting strategy. I've been worried that destroyer swarms might be too strong in the mid game, but, if you're using them this successfully with tier 1 techs, that actually suggests that the "problem", if any, is that light ship upkeeps may just be too low across the board.
zolobolo wrote:sven wrote:This is an interesting strategy. I've been worried that destroyer swarms might be too strong in the mid game, but, if you're using them this successfully with tier 1 techs, that actually suggests that the "problem", if any, is that light ship upkeeps may just be too low across the board.
A reasonable assumption but one that will also lead down the road of large-ship-only end of the spectrum.
sven wrote:If I really tie upkeeps to part maintenance, some players will end up in situations where they'll find themselves suddenly running huge deficits after doing a "refit all". I think that would prove unintuitive for most players, and while a few might learn to enjoy the mechanic, I suspect many others would probably just find it frustrating and confusing.
You also don't want to go through the Stellaris screw-up where 'naked corvettes' are better than the high-end ships due to costing a fraction in upkeep.
If we say that one can only have n units of various types of elements (A good against B ok against C, B good against C but ok against A, C good against A and ok against B) that counter each other but require close to ~n units to reliably balance each other out, then the solution will likely be to take the one that allows for the extreme utilization of one single aspect (n A). Any suboptimal combination will likely be wastefull (the more elements there are the more likely this is) and you can only counter it if prepared for specifically which is not possible due to low unit count.
nA > n/2A+n/2B
nB < n/2A+n/2B
nC > n/2A+n/2B
If you have high enough count all elements that can concentrade on any location, the system gets much more unpredictable
Uncle_Joe wrote:I don't think that is a rabbit hole worth going down. It opens up cans of worms with trying to balance between upgrading and keeping ships un-upgraded and having more of them. I think in a game like this it should always be beneficial to upgrade since it not only costs metal/money but also the research points (which is an opportunity cost since instead of building Labs you could build more Factories/Mines/Markets etc).
I'd leave it alone.
SgtArmyGuy wrote:As zolobolo and I have pointed out, refitting is too expensive in most situations under the current economic balance. It needs to be cheaper to be viable. Increase in upkeep could make the ship cost more in the long run, but the initial cost could be very minimal. I'd like this very much!
Dragar wrote:You need to be a bit careful that you don't fall into the surprisingly common trap of making it cheaper to build an empty hull and then 'upgrade' than it is to build from scratch.
sven wrote:Arguably, what I should do is increase the coins to labor exchange rate used in refitting to match the rush buy formula, but then change the refit formula so it gives more weight to the "simple cost difference" cost estimation. I'm not sure if it would really end up making the refit costs noticeably lower in practice, but, it would probably be more "correct" than the current math.
sven wrote:In practice, no one seems to be "exploiting" this mechanic, but, it's worth noting that there is a sense in which I've already pushed refit costs lower than I probably should have.
zolobolo wrote:- Same goes to mid-game: they tend to form a strike fleet with all their ships leaving theit entire empire defensless
zolobolo wrote:- Still: I think they should not offer up colonies: getting a fully developed colony (or even 3) is a huge advantage to the player as no time is spent amassing tanks, and no pops/improvements are destroyed due to bombing
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