Gifting

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nweismuller
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Gifting

Postby nweismuller » Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:08 am

I understand there being issues with trying to set up trading for planets or resources. That said, It'd be nice if you could set up a special case for outright gifts- being unable to return the Rastaban system to the Ashdar Republic after liberating it from the Gremak Empire as the Phidi Combine sort of makes me sad.

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Arioch
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Re: Gifting

Postby Arioch » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:49 pm

Enabling generic trades is near the top of our list of things to add.

zolobolo
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Re: Gifting

Postby zolobolo » Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:31 pm

Arioch wrote:Enabling generic trades is near the top of our list of things to add.


Is this feature something that is being actually used for something else then gaming the AI?

I mean outside of the above mentioned cool lore enactment, I found myself always avoiding it (GalCiv even allows for disabling tech brokerage and even trade if the player wants to)

The problem is that the AI needs to be really awesome to handle such a system on an acceptable level - no one manages this except maybe the Dev team of the above mentioned game after 2-3 years. But even if successful, it has a nasty effect of leveling out the AI empires tech level and working as a cheat for human players without adding much in return

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Arioch
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Re: Gifting

Postby Arioch » Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:48 pm

These kinds of systems are not usually very useful except to exploit the AI, which is one reason why it wasn't at the top of the list of things to put in. However, I think that if we assign appropriate base prices for all commodities and tie them to reputation, the trade screen could be useful for getting a few things you need (at high prices), or getting rid of things you don't need (at low prices), or getting a moderate rep boost for giving gifts.

But yes, it needs to be carefully tuned so that it's not bruisingly exploitable, which is why it's not a quick job.

nweismuller
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Re: Gifting

Postby nweismuller » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:12 am

I wasn't even looking for much of anything in return for gifting things. I mean, I guess a relations boost would be nice, but the key motivation is more 'attempting to preserve my friends as an independent star nation and letting them hang onto their own ancestral home'. The 'exploiting the AI' thing is why I was leery about generalising the trade system, but I'd figure they should accept 'something for nothing', since that's not exactly an 'exploiting the AI' case, and I have a motivation to return conquered worlds to their original owners when my motivation to enter the war in the first place is to protect a friend and trading partner, rather than be a fresh conquerer for populations recently subjugated by the Gremak.

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Arioch
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Re: Gifting

Postby Arioch » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:59 am

Internal story is as good a motivation for trades as any, but all trades must have a value calculated by the AI, because "something for nothing" is not always a good thing. Taking a worthless colony that may bankrupt the faction or is difficult to defend or would otherwise put it in a difficult position is not always in their interest, and this sort of thing is easy for the player to exploit if the AI is forced to accept gifts.

zolobolo
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Re: Gifting

Postby zolobolo » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:16 pm

If the reason is lore bound how about skipping the whole building of a functioning trade system and have the following specific diplomacy cases instead?:
1. Gifting the other empire its home planet (available only if owned by the player)
2. Gifting the other empire all player colonies where the race of that empire is in majority
3. Requesting the above by the player from a neutral or friendly empire (should not be allowed to request such a thing from hostile empire)
4. Gift all the latest military tech to the other empire (only allowed if they are allies)
5. Requesting all latest military tech from another empire (only allowed in alliance)

Trading food and credit is already in place

The above "transactions" of course would only accept influence as payment method and thats it. All the requirements are covered, gaming the AI is not possible, and DEV time is kept in check

Rationale for above: They make sense lore wise (duh) and logically: The other empire or player would want their home planet (or even their taken planets which are logically going to be the ones where their pop has majority) back from a friend. But they need to pay influence to get it back, or the owner can decide to give it to them voluntarily receiving influence and good reputation.

Ashbery76
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Re: Gifting

Postby Ashbery76 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:14 pm

Allowing the A.I to trade planets is a bad idea.The A.I have no long term strategic thinking and you just exploit them.


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