Suggest - Features and Improvements

A forum for chatting about in-development game features.
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Arioch
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Re: Suggest - Features and Improvements

Postby Arioch » Sat May 01, 2021 2:14 am

PrivateHudson wrote:Agreed, fairly minor change, not a factor in battle outcome. Mostly stems from a sense of perceived "realism".

Actually, in terms of realism, I think point-defense weapons would probably be your most effective weapons against ground targets. You're firing at essentially point-blank range, and small missiles, mass driver rounds and pinpoint lasers would be best suited to penetrate atmosphere.

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PrivateHudson
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Re: Suggest - Features and Improvements

Postby PrivateHudson » Sat May 01, 2021 10:50 am

Arioch wrote:
PrivateHudson wrote:Agreed, fairly minor change, not a factor in battle outcome. Mostly stems from a sense of perceived "realism".

Actually, in terms of realism, I think point-defense weapons would probably be your most effective weapons against ground targets. You're firing at essentially point-blank range, and small missiles, mass driver rounds and pinpoint lasers would be best suited to penetrate atmosphere.

I probably get something wrong about space-to-ground combat. Under "space-to-ground combat" here I understand engagement between spaceships and ground defenses, lasting until either ships retreat or defenses are no longer kicking.
a) Ships are more vulnerable, as they are under weight restrictions and can't benefit from terrain (cover, camouflage).
b) Ships are vastly more maneuverable.
c) Bigger weapons have longer effective range, in atmosphere as well. Why "small missiles, mass driver rounds and pinpoint lasers would be best suited to penetrate atmosphere"?
d) As combatants are closing, ships can use only so much more weapons (point-defense ones being the last available), when ground defenders can potentially bring exponentially more (until every last infantryman fires his rifle).
e) Hence for fleet commander it seems preferable to stay away as far as possible, reducing number of enemies that can reach his ships more than the number of weapons he can fire, and getting more time to react to incoming fire (shoot-down or evade).

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Arioch
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Re: Suggest - Features and Improvements

Postby Arioch » Sat May 01, 2021 10:16 pm

Ground defenses really don't benefit from cover or terrain vs. orbital opponents. Ground defenses can remain hidden only until they fire, and then the enemy knows exactly where they are. And unlike ships in orbit, ground defenses can't move. Once located, they are very easy targets.

Long range ship to ship weapons are unlikely to be effective at very short ranges and through atmosphere; the very things that make them effective at long ranges (extremely high velocity or some kind of long-range beam collimation) tend to be exactly the things that are disrupted by atmosphere; while short-range, lower-velocity mass driver rounds may be able to penetrate atmosphere, extremely high velocity projectiles such as railgun rounds would probably be heated to fusion temperatures by contact with atmosphere, exploding before reaching the ground like a meteor.

Of course, we don't model this specifically in SiS, and the movements and ranges are abstracted and not especially realistic. But in a more realistic space battle with really long weapon ranges, striking from low orbit is incredibly close range... it's knife fight in a telephone booth close range.

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PrivateHudson
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Re: Suggest - Features and Improvements

Postby PrivateHudson » Sun May 30, 2021 7:15 am

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri had an interesting feature: upon finishing game, it showed in a window entire world map and displayed fast-forward animation of how borders have changed in this playthrough. I think, this feature would befit SiS post-victory graphs screen also.

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Arioch
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Re: Suggest - Features and Improvements

Postby Arioch » Sun May 30, 2021 7:19 am

PrivateHudson wrote:Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri had an interesting feature: upon finishing game, it showed in a window entire world map and displayed fast-forward animation of how borders have changed in this playthrough. I think, this feature would befit SiS post-victory graphs screen also.

Various Civilization versions had that too. We have access to the history of the game in the undo feature, so that sort of thing is possible.

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PrivateHudson
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Re: Suggest - Features and Improvements

Postby PrivateHudson » Sun May 30, 2021 9:08 am

Each time I have troubles sending fleet to the star obscured by passing-by fleets. I have to hold right mouse button and patiently search for spot sufficiently close to the star, but sufficiently away from any fleet. This often requires zooming in. Suggest to ignore existence of any outsider fleets when fleet is selected and RMB is pressed.

gaerzi
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Re: Suggest - Features and Improvements

Postby gaerzi » Sun May 30, 2021 5:35 pm

Arioch wrote:Various Civilization versions had that too.

Starting with the very first!

zolobolo
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Re: Suggest - Features and Improvements

Postby zolobolo » Sun May 30, 2021 6:00 pm

Arioch wrote:while short-range, lower-velocity mass driver rounds may be able to penetrate atmosphere, extremely high velocity projectiles such as railgun rounds would probably be heated to fusion temperatures by contact with atmosphere, exploding before reaching the ground like a meteor.

Perfect background for introducing negatvie effect from bombing.
Never looked at it specifically but assume that both lenergy and mass driver weapons both offer bombing payload so when we are conducting orbitan bombardment we are using a wide range of weapon types most of which devastate the gornd as well as the atmosphere heating it up and ejecting huge amount of dust particles

zolobolo
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Re: Suggest - Features and Improvements

Postby zolobolo » Sun May 30, 2021 6:04 pm

Arioch wrote:Ground defenses can remain hidden only until they fire, and then the enemy knows exactly where they are. And unlike ships in orbit, ground defenses can't move. Once located, they are very easy targets.

Yes ground defenses dont really work logically not in the game due to range limit
In reality ground weapons would of coruse be useless in over 50% of the day when they are not facing the right angle :)

Even if we are thinking on SAM (or rathter SAS :)) batteries that can relocate, theri relocation speed would be much to short to allign to new incoming threats or make a break for it once revealed

Orbital defense installations are much more logical and starbases and fortresses serve well mechanically (except when sniped)

Dacarnix
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Re: Suggest - Features and Improvements

Postby Dacarnix » Thu Jun 03, 2021 10:33 pm

Arioch wrote:
PrivateHudson wrote:Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri had an interesting feature: upon finishing game, it showed in a window entire world map and displayed fast-forward animation of how borders have changed in this playthrough. I think, this feature would befit SiS post-victory graphs screen also.

Various Civilization versions had that too. We have access to the history of the game in the undo feature, so that sort of thing is possible.

It's definitely a feature I've often wished for, especially in hard-fought games where boundaries changed dramatically over time.

zolobolo
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Re: Suggest - Features and Improvements

Postby zolobolo » Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:42 pm

Would it it possible to have a small art for reverse engineering report after enemy ships are defeated or planet captured?
To highlight the event and make it evne more rewarding:)

zolobolo
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Re: Suggest - Features and Improvements

Postby zolobolo » Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:34 pm

Propose to have fuel depots have a longer support range then colonies

This is to make this module a viable choise for starbases

The risk here is the player feels they need to spam outposts all ove their boredr systems to benefit from a logn base range but considering that outposts now have a non-negligable upkeep cost this woudl likely not be the case

Ideally the player would consdier placing fuel depot on one of the 3 slots of a starbase to have it operate as a kind of regional command center supporting fleets on longer range skirmishes instead of focusing only on defense which migh or might not be needed in the end

Another signifficant advantage would be that it would eliminate the inefficiency of leaving an outpost stadning as is after the planet it has been built opver has been colonised (an event that occurs frequently when tagging a juicy planet ahead of other factions to reserver it)
If the outpost would continue to provide ta range benefit even after the planet is colonised, beginner players who dont know the outpost is dead weight right now would not loose upkeep cost for nothing and advanced players would likely leave the outpost standing for its range benefit eliminating micro of decomissioning or refitting with research station

zolobolo
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Re: Suggest - Features and Improvements

Postby zolobolo » Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:33 am

Propose to have an icon to mark systems that have not yet been explored yet with Deep Space Scanner AND to remove this flag from the systme once a Deep Space Scanner has entered the system already

This would resolve to issues:
1. Player sees which systems have not been scanned yet (bonuses are only provided when entering these systme with scanner ship but at mid game it is difficult ot tell where the player has already gone as systems are revealed via diplomatic actions)
2. Eliminate the bonus from already explored systems as someone else has already scanned the systme and would have found it

As a bonus benefit, the concept would encourage the player to explore agressively and get to unexplored systems before other factions (even if these do not contain planets or are too far away to have a realistic chance of colonising them before others)

nweismuller
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Re: Suggest - Features and Improvements

Postby nweismuller » Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:12 pm

I propose that Viscids are created as Sterile, as per discussion in the bug report thread. Their current implementation encourages a great deal of artificial, 'gamey' behavior and further doesn't make all that much sense. (Sure, you're not able to wipe them out, but it staggers imagination that they'd continue to grow and choke out settlement on the planet to the extent that they do.) Being Sterile, they're easier for the AI to handle and the incentives for very strange behavior around their planet are removed, making them 'merely' a negative planet special.

Dacarnix
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Re: Suggest - Features and Improvements

Postby Dacarnix » Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:45 pm

nweismuller wrote:I propose that Viscids are created as Sterile, as per discussion in the bug report thread. Their current implementation encourages a great deal of artificial, 'gamey' behavior and further doesn't make all that much sense. (Sure, you're not able to wipe them out, but it staggers imagination that they'd continue to grow and choke out settlement on the planet to the extent that they do.) Being Sterile, they're easier for the AI to handle and the incentives for very strange behavior around their planet are removed, making them 'merely' a negative planet special.

Don't get me wrong; I don't have any more love for the Viscids in their current form than the next guy, but "sterile" really doesn't make sense for them from a conceptual standpoint.

Programming challenges aside and embracing their intended design, I would:
* add a trait that makes them immune to Cloning / Longevity
* reduce their population from 3mil to 1mil

I believe those two changes would allow them to function as they were intended (a nuisance species) while reducing the negative play experience inherent in building a colony on their planet.


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