AI outpost use (or lack thereof)

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Chasm
Posts: 509
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:14 pm

AI outpost use (or lack thereof)

Postby Chasm » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:52 pm

Due to the large amount of tiny worlds, and greater amount of stepping stone systems (ones that ONLY have tiny/gas giant worlds) game difficulty seems greatly reduced. I am finding a lot of games where 1 or more opponents are stranded , but in that they have fleets of 30 + ships. 1 well placed outpost would allow them to clear that hurdle and move out to expand. Are there any plans to try to educate the ai as to how to use outposts? Even something as simple as 1 per system they cant use yet (if unable to colonize anything) would make life more interesting.

nathanebht
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:48 pm

Re: AI outpost use (or lack thereof)

Postby nathanebht » Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:06 am

Allow colonization of the tiny planets with 1 population and having one build spot. It then will not matter as much that the AI doesn't know how to use outposts.

It doesn't make sense we can't colonize the tiny planets anyway. If my guys can live on a gas planet...

silverkitty23
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:08 pm

Re: AI outpost use (or lack thereof)

Postby silverkitty23 » Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:51 am

Chasm wrote:Are there any plans to try to educate the ai as to how to use outposts?


Sven posted something last week implying an intention to teach the AI about outposts, yes.

zolobolo
Posts: 459
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:49 pm

Re: AI outpost use (or lack thereof)

Postby zolobolo » Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:03 pm

Below is a situation where the AI did not have a consolable system directly available to it

Notice that I have built outposts in such systems

But also notice that there is a system: Alkaid, that should have been within default traveling distance for a colony ship. Maybe it had pirates of Harpies that I don't remember having cleared there though...

But what is sure is this: The AI does not use outposts to increase its traveling distance even if there is no other way out of its starting system
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akkamaddi
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Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:11 am

Re: AI outpost use (or lack thereof)

Postby akkamaddi » Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:51 pm

nathanebht wrote: If my guys can live on a gas planet...


I'm sorry, but... what?

zolobolo
Posts: 459
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:49 pm

Re: AI outpost use (or lack thereof)

Postby zolobolo » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:02 am

nathanebht wrote:Allow colonization of the tiny planets with 1 population and having one build spot. It then will not matter as much that the AI doesn't know how to use outposts.

It doesn't make sense we can't colonize the tiny planets anyway. If my guys can live on a gas planet...

This was the case a couple of builds before but it some cases it still happened that some of the AIs got stock in their own system due to the race compatibility to planet bioms

The reason tiny planets have been introduced (in my opinion) is to reduce micro management of small planets, that really did not bring much in the way of resource production but required landholding. Now the player does not feel like having to colonize a bunch of practically useless planets

That being said, it did make the lack of outpost usage from AI side more apparent as the AI was more then willing to micro colonies and manage these low value planets

The solution is either to teach the AI to build outposts + use them (like protecting against incoming attacks) or rethink the mechanic. I honestly don't have anything for the later as everything I come up with seems to promise more effort then is worth.

Regarding gas planets: haven't seen colonies there in this game yet, aren't you thinking on ES2?

Chasm
Posts: 509
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:14 pm

Re: AI outpost use (or lack thereof)

Postby Chasm » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:33 pm

Tiny planets and dead systems have basically crippled the AI. The human player can use those useless tiny worlds as stepping stones, to underrun opponents territory, and get a small amount of resources per outpost. And in the meantime, the computer players are just stuck in boxes they cant get out of. With small worlds instead, the computer opponents used to more rapidly spread, and be far more of a threat.

zolobolo
Posts: 459
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:49 pm

Re: AI outpost use (or lack thereof)

Postby zolobolo » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:42 pm

Chasm wrote:Tiny planets and dead systems have basically crippled the AI. The human player can use those useless tiny worlds as stepping stones, to underrun opponents territory, and get a small amount of resources per outpost. And in the meantime, the computer players are just stuck in boxes they cant get out of. With small worlds instead, the computer opponents used to more rapidly spread, and be far more of a threat.

It does seem logical but cannot tell directly from my games as Harpy invasions also cause some delays to the AI expansion.

Marauders seem to have been weakened, so that should have given them a large boost.

A workaround might be to generate the galaxy where the star systems can be found as close as possible together

Another workaround that comes to my mind from a DEV perspective is to increase the base range of ships in a way that you can practically never be boxed in. Outposts would still be beneficial to the player for resource generation (though not advisable to be use as a handicap) and even allow for expansion benefits circumventing enemy or unconscionable planets with the given race

Chasm
Posts: 509
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:14 pm

Re: AI outpost use (or lack thereof)

Postby Chasm » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:06 am

A very simple (and tiny) mod that does not allow tiny worlds to spawn. I'm finding that the ai does a lot better with this (phidi are still having issues, though).
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1bdBbJ ... YuXY_JsKZC


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